I have said it before, and I shall say it again:
Children change everything.
Postively, negatively and every way in-between.
Children are engines of growth and that growth can ripple outward in all sorts of unexpected ways.
So, what happens when the growth being fostered in the way that some think it should?
That was the issue facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) imtrying__mybest when he came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for judgment.
He asked:
"AITA for letting my son call my best friend 'Dad'?"
OP started with a little background.
"My (30 Male) relationship with my wife Sam (29 Female) has been rocky since our son Oliver was born two years ago."
"She got pregnant just a few months after we got married and things were fine up until Oliver's delivery."
OP had theories, but nothing definitive.
"I assume it was postpartum depression, Sam never sought out a specific diagnosis, but after he was born it was like she just couldn't care less about our child."
"We hadn't planned to have children so early into our marriage and it was scary, but I can't describe to you the all-encompassing love that comes with being a parent."
"The fear was worth it for me. It still is and always will be."
He laid out what he felt the core issue was.
"Throughout Oliver's life, but especially that first year, I was essentially acting as a single parent."
"The only help I had (and I don't mean for that to sound diminishing because this man is a godsend) was my best friend, Matt (33M)."
"The plan was for Oliver to be breastfed, but my wife had no interest in it after he was born."
"I was the one changing diapers and mixing up formula for bottles and being in the house we shared felt so... oppressive."
"Like the joys of bonding with my son were being sucked out of me because of the energy there. So I would take Oliver to Matt's."
"I don't want to ramble on for too long, but there have been exactly zero times in life where Matt hasn't shown up for me."
"I've known him since I was 19 and can safely say that even after all that time."
"But this is the most wonderful thing he's given me."
"I could sleep soundly knowing my baby would be taken care of."
"I had a place of refuge. He is so, so good with Oliver and is my shoulder to cry on. I don't think I'll ever be able to repay him but I'm definitely trying every single day."
"Things with my wife have kind of started to look up but recent events have sent us in a huge downwards spiral."
"Oliver was having some speech delays but he's been really picking things up as his third birthday nears."
"He's babbled "dadada" towards Matt and I for a while now, but "daddy" has since been added to his vocabulary and that is used to refer to us both."
"I have never corrected him."
"I checked in with Matt to make sure he was fine, and he said he was honored to be bestowed with such a title."
Then he got to the problem at hand.
"Sam got to hear this recently when I was on facetime with Matt and she basically went ballistic."
"As much as I hate to admit it, I did say he was more of a parent than she had been which, while true, is hurtful. I need outside opinions on this."
OP was left to wonder,
"Aita for allowing him to call him dad?"
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for judgment.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: NTA
Some asked for further clarity.
"Info..."
"I feel like there's a lot missing from your wife's side of things."
"Does she literally do nothing?"
"Does she work?"
"Are you doing all the doctors appointments, grocery shopping, cooking meals, housekeeping, waking up through the night for your son, getting clothes, going to the park etc.?"
"Have you talked to your wife about what's going on?"
"Encouraging seeing a therapist? Encouraging outings/spending time with her son? Or do you just go off to Matt's place every chance you get?" ~ EarNo2652
"INFO:"
"What *did* your wife do after Oliver was born? What was the nature of her interactions with him? Did you talk to her about the breastfeeding situation?" ~ swishystrawberry
Some suggested that OP's feelings ran deeper than friendship.
"I think you are going to get lambasted for this one."
"I'm going with NTA for me, however."
"I have been hospitalized previously for depression and I think it's amazing my now wife stayed. Sh*t gets rough out there but everyone gets to be happy. That includes you."
"Soft toss on ask yourself if you are in love with Matt. Seems like you act as a couple. No judgement, but leave if it's what you want."
"Edit:"
"wow surprised people are super upset about asking a dude to think about his feelings."
"Also, commenters, try to call out your own bias."
"I am a queer male who happened to fall in love with a woman and have beautiful children. Guys sounds like how I acted before I was honest with myself and open with others."
"Lol just because some of us are in heterosexual lives/relationships doesn't mean we don't understand/ haven't gone through stuff like this." ~ yeti_mann12466
"Lesbian speaking, totally sounded like he was going to say in the next paragraph they fell in love but haven't figured it out yet…shocked I didn't."
"Also speaking up since I'm a woman, I don't feel that commenters (respectfully gentle) question was coming from a sexist place lol."
"I'd too assume the same of two women if one of them was saying things like "my safe space and shoulder to cry on"'
"But tbh even more wholesome that they're just bros lmao, good dad vibes all around I'm just surprised it seemed immediately sexist to others" ~ cummaster42
"I agree with you."
"I'd also add that the fact that op is so willing to share the dad title with someone who isn't a father of the child (biological or adoptive or step) led me to have this feeling as well."
"My mother and my sister and a few female friends have been an incredible help to me with my children but I would die before I allowed them to be called mother or mommy."
"I love them with all my heart but that's my place."
"The only way I feel like I'd be comfortable with it is if she was my spouse/partner/or long-term girlfriend."
"However, if they are just close like that then it is still super sweet." ~ Its_Actually_Satan
Others pointed out that mom could step up.
"Hot take:"
"A parent is a person who raises a child. Sperm donors, egg donors, and incubators are appreciated, but not parents."
"If she wants credit where credit is due, she has to put in the effort."
"Not to say postpartum depression is not an issue, and I really hope they sought help."
"But aside, if she wants to be a mother, she needs to give love."
"The baby doesn't have a love capacity. You don't have to take away love the baby is receiving. She can start contributing whenever she is ready." ~ jays0n93
"Tbh, I feel like a lot of the y t a comments on here are kinda glossing over the child's feelings on this."
"This isn't a newborn who won't know the difference. I have memories going back to shortly after my second birthday, and this kid is nearly three."
"Kid absolutely has the ability to distinguish between the adults in his life at this age, and from his perspective he has 'daddy who lives at one house', 'daddy who lives at the other house' and 'strange woman who lives at the first daddy's house but never touches or looks at me'".
"Even if mom can be persuaded to get treatment, how long is that going to take?"
"A year, two years? Long enough that kiddo could be starting school with Matt still acting as one of his primary caregivers?"
"This wouldn't be a simple matter of 'get her some therapy, go back to your house and spend the rest of your lives playing Happy Nuclear Families' even if the therapy part were simple."
"If they want to avoid potentially traumatizing this kid, Matt is going to have to keep playing a role of some kind." ~ Cheeseanonioncrisps
Commenters also commiserated with personal stories.
"I grew up in a house with a mom with severe depression caused by bipolar disorder, she also had PPD after me though obviously, I don't remember that."
"This might be an unpopular opinion given the way these comments are going, but I think you're doing the right thing by ensuring your child has at least one supportive and loving adult outside of the home."
"Growing up with a mom who was not very interested in me and always depressed seriously f*cked up my ability to emotionally regulate myself."
"I don't think you should limit your wife's time with her kid, obviously, but the kid should also have loving and positive spaces."
"Anyone making fun of you for criticizing the bad energy of your home must have never experienced a space like that themselves, but it's truly real."
"Please encourage your wife to seek help, let her know how it's affecting you, and maybe be more gentle with her on her parenting because it is a mental illness."
"However, NTA because you're just looking out for yourself and your kid in the end. You cannot force someone to get help when they have repeatedly refused it." ~ elizardbethj
Children are engines of change.
That change can be scary or painful or wonderful. The change, however, is unavoidable.
So when those changes begin to spiral outward into the relationships that we cherish we can only ride out the waves.
Do not forget to communicate and protect each other from the rough stuff, but be open to redefining relationships that don't function in the old way anymore.
Remember that while we've created many templates to help build relationships, your family doesn't need to fit one to be correct.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp