Having a baby is a HUGE responsibility.
It feels like a large portion of parents seem to ignore that fact.
Some people throw caution to the wind and make another human.
This isn't always the best life decision.
There usually is no perfect time to have a baby.
But there are definitely perfect times to not.
Right?
Redditor throwaway_Smile_9509 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback, so naturally, she came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
She asked:
"WIBTA if I told my brother he and his G[irl]F[riend] should not have a baby?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My (20 F[emale]) brother (24 M[ale]) and his girlfriend are apparently trying for a baby."
"Here's the thing, my brother is a high school dropout, he doesn't work, he isn't back in school, he doesn't do anything basically but go out with his friends and smoke weed all day."
"His girlfriend doesn't really have a stable job either; she's a 'hairstylist' who has one client every month."
"My brother and his girlfriend both live in our mother's basement."
"My mom enables the behavior; she doesn't tell him to get a job, go back to school, or do anything productive."
"When I found out they were trying for a baby, I immediately thought, why, when they have no source of income, no space for a baby, and neither of them is emotionally mature enough to raise a child, considering they're in a toxic relationship where they break up every month and constantly cheat on each other."
"I told my mother she needs to tell them they shouldn't be trying for a baby because of all these reasons."
"She just said they're two adults who can make their own decisions."
"I feel like it'll seem like I'm being judgmental or unsupportive, but this isn't just about him."
"This is about a human child they'll potentially be screwing up by bringing them into this world unprepared."
The OP was left to wonder:
"WIBTA if I told my brother he should not have a baby?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP WOULD be the A**hole.
"Your concerns are 100% valid."
"Bringing a child into a chaotic, unstable environment affects more than just the parents."
"That said, telling someone they 'shouldn't have a baby' is a conversation that can go south really fast, especially coming from a sibling."
"If you do say something, keep it focused on concern for the child's well-being, not judgment of their lifestyle."
"But ultimately, you can't stop them all; you can do is voice your worries with compassion and hope they listen." ~
"Don't waste your breath."
"YWBTA if you thought relaying to him the simple rational outcome of this situation would make him have some major change of heart."
"Obviously, he's not capable of adult reasoning."
"However, you could get it on record with both him and your mom that in no way will you be stepping in to help with childcare or their future expenses if they insist upon doing something so outrageously dumb."
"Let them screw up their own lives." ~ spaetzele
"Instead, talk to them in a friendly way about what they see themselves doing in two years, five years, ten years."
"Ask them about how much money they would like to make next year, ideally, and what kind of job they would like to get them that money."
"Don't have opinions, just draw them out like you are musing idly about it."
"If they bring up a baby, ask if they have medical insurance, and then casually ask them to look up how much it would cost without insurance as if you are just curious."
"Ask if she's afraid of tearing or having stitches and stretch marks."
"And so on."
"Get them thinking." ~ Spare_Ad5009
"If you are close enough to them to feel comfortable, try asking them some leading questions."
"Like, 'where would the baby sleep?'"
"'Have you priced out things like diapers, strollers, and other baby gear? How about medical insurance and doctor visits for the baby?'"
"Make it very clear that you will not be available for babysitting or loaning money."
"After that, all you can do is feel sorry for the kid." ~ chicagok8
"This. Make them think about the reality of having a baby."
"How are they going to manage and afford it?"
"And be VERY firm that you will not be free help, if they pay you fairly, maybe consider helping."
"But absolutely NO money will be lent/given to help out."
"If they are doing this, they need to stand on their feet and do it." ~ lotteoddities
"I don't think this is an AH situation."
"You're absolutely correct that they aren't in a good position to start a family, but I can't imagine they will take what you say to heart."
"You're better off staying out of it for now, BUT if they bring it up to you (and definitely if they announce their 'happy news'), take that opportunity to go on record that you will not be helping... if you don't plan to, that is."
"No need to shame or judge; just be matter-of-fact about it." ~ WelfordNelferd
"ESH, respectfully, you just sound naive, thinking that telling him is going to have any kind of an impact at all."
"The only thing that's going to happen is they're still going to continue to do what they want to do and now be angry at you." ~ adventuresofViolet
"You are a sensible AH, not your circus, not your monkeys."
"If you are worried about your mother having to support them, the same thing she told you, she is an adult, she knows what she is doing." ~ Naka_kuro
"Your opinion isn't wrong."
"But there's no point in telling them this."
"They're going to do what they want, anyway."
"It's not like they don't know where they live, what their job situation is, or what their relationship is like."
"All that will happen is they'll get mad at you."
"I'm going to have to go with a soft YTA, just because you really have no say in this situation."
"But again, you aren't wrong." ~ chicagoliz
"YWBTA if you are expecting your advice to matter to someone in his situation who still wants to have a baby."
"This is in your sphere of concern, but not in your sphere of influence."
"If he talks to you about his plans, ask logical questions about how he's planning to manage with a child."
"You can toss in a, 'because once that baby gets here, it's all you.'"
"Often, people who make these types of decisions expect others to fill in the gaps because they are family or friends."
"But in the end, he might still make the decision no matter what you say." ~ SnooRegrets6269
"YWBTA because it's not going to do anything."
"Do you think they don't know their situation?"
"If they ask your advice, then by all means give it to them, but unsolicited advice is just going to fall on deaf ears." ~ keesouth
"If you do that, like that, I think YWBTA, but I think it is reasonable if you, instead, just ask them or him some questions and try to make them see why it is a complicated scenario."
"But you should not tell them 'you should not do that' because they are adults and you are nobody to tell them what they should or should not do."
"If they insist, I also suggest making it clear that you are not going to financially help them or babysit for free or things like that." ~ La10deRiver
"YTA. It's not that you don't have valid concerns, but telling someone that they should not have a baby never ends well for the person initiating the talk."
"How do you think that will actually go?"
"You are being judgmental and unsupportive."
"Your Mom isn't helping him by enabling your brother."
"The best thing you can do here is to keep out of it and just refuse to be involved."
"Don't give your brother any kind of material support and keep your opinions to yourself." ~ No-Assignment5538
"YTA. Look. You're not wrong."
"They absolutely should not be having a baby."
"But, your mom is also right."
"They're adults."
"They want to have a baby together? Let 'em."
"Let them dig themselves a hole to their own hell."
"Some people need to learn the hard way how stupid their decisions are."
"When CPS is called and places the kid in your mom's care, and she comes crying to you, just smile and say, 'Told you so. Enjoy taking care of 3 kids,' and walk away." ~ R4eth
"YWBTA, It might seem counterintuitive, but you should keep your mouth shut and mind your own business."
"None of them wants your opinion on this; your mom made that clear."
"You also won't be telling them something they don't already know."
"So there is no real point to you saying anything."
"You would just be talking for the sake of talking." ~ Deep-Okra1461
"Unpopular opinion, but YWBTA."
"Look, I absolutely get where you're coming from, but I think we both know that expressing your opinion on the matter won't do a lick of good."
"I had my kid at your age."
"Was I properly prepared for parenthood at that tender age? Absolutely not!"
"But I busted my a** to give him a better life than I had."
"So it's possible that having a baby would encourage them to step up and grow up."
"It's impossible to say how it would go, but to immediately assume they would f**k any child up is hurtful at best." ~ TheWardenVenom
Reddit acknowledges your dilemma, OP.
But it seems like Reddit doesn't think you getting involved is a good idea.
Your brother and his GF are going to do what they're going to do.
And your mother clearly is no help.
Worry about yourself and help when and if you want to.
Good luck to everyone involved here.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp