Imagine being so in love with your partner that you've married them and are ready to take the next step, trying to have kids with them, when you realize that you share an extreme difference of opinion.
When two people want to have children but disagree about medical care or disciplining styles, the users of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit pointed out, they might have to ask themselves if parenting together would be the best choice.
Redditor smoothkriminal007 loved his wife and was excited to start growing a family together.
But when his wife expressed her extreme dislike of early vaccinations, the Original Poster (OP) questioned if he could ever have children with her in the future.
He asked the sub:
"AITAH because I'm second guessing having kids due to our opposing views on vaccinating them?"
The OP had been excited to start trying to have children with his wife.
"My wife (32 Female) and I (35 Male) are trying to have a baby, but we have since come to opposing views on whether to vaccinate any future children."
"I am for immunizations against things like meningitis and measles, mumps, rubella, and polio as they are recommended."
But he had reservations after hearing how his wife felt about vaccinations.
"My wife is not and prefers to wait at least five to seven years before administering any vaccines as she is concerned about ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder) or other harmful side effects based on what she has seen on TikTok and Instagram videos."
"I've since been putting having a child on hold until we can come to an agreement and my wife isn't happy..."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some told the OP they'd question the whole marriage, not just parenting children.
"You want to start a family with someone who takes medical advice off TikTok? I'd be second-guessing that relationship."
"She may try to cure your future ailments with kind thoughts and an unknown tincture off Temu and end up poisoning you."
"Honestly, give her a medical journal outlining the benefits of vaccination over not. If she's still against the idea, get a vasectomy or divorce papers. " - PlanetLibrarian
"NTA, but your wife is an uneducated moron who should not be reproducing under any circumstances." - TheLastGerudo
"NTA, but your wife's stance is concerning. You might want to rethink the relationship before having kids."
"Man, that would suck. Finding the love of your life and settling down with them to start a family, just to then one day have her mention not wanting to get any future kids vaccinated like it's any old thing. Because she saw something on TikTok..."
"How can people just completely lose their minds about vaccines after all these years? It's so stupid. I'm really sorry for what you're going through, OP. What a blow." - Asron87
"NTA. Do not have children with this woman." - Lonely-World-981
"She values social media twits over the consensus of the scientific community."
"There is absolutely no cure for terminal ignorance, which is the unwillingness to think critically and seek knowledge."
"Someone says something on TikTok? Take 5 minutes to Google it, go to various sources like the CDC, Mayo Clinic, and Autism Speaks, and read up on it. Then, follow their links to the peer-reviewed published papers, and read those."
"I understand reading scientific journal articles is difficult for lay people, but the sites linking them do a decent job of breaking them down for the general public."
"I also understand there are issues with the Autism Speaks organization, just using it as one of many quickly accessible potential sources that explicitly debunks the vaccine-Autism myth." - Marchesa_07
Others argued against assertions that vaccines cause ASD and similar disorders.
"As someone who wasn't vaccinated in childhood and is autistic AF I can't say I draw a parallel between the two. Definitely hereditary."
"(Vaccinated now, though.)" - tulki123
"I'm a physician. The claims of ASD links with vaccines (specifically MMR) were widely debunked as the study was done in a very biased way."
"Andrew Wakefield, the doctor who did the study is now a pariah and lost all credibility. PS, He was being paid by the company making the single measles vaccine for whom the MMR vaccine was the main competition."
"The journal that published the paper had to withdraw it and publish a groveling apology. There was a huge scandal."
"Medical decisions should be left to experts who study for decades in order to have the ability to look at the evidence and offer the correct advice. not idiot influencers with not even basic scientific knowledge."
"For me, anyone who is a conspiracy theorist (which antivaxxers basically are) gives me a massive ick because it says a lot about their critical thinking (i.e. they have none), I absolutely would not have children with them."
"We have unvaccinated children dying or left with awful disabilities due to measles in the UK right now. There is also a resurgence of diseases that had previously been eradicated due to vaccines, all because some people think they are smarter than everyone else." - AdmirableCost5692
"I accidentally told my friend that it is considered that ASD is hereditary from genetics, and now his anti-vax wife is cranky because her family has more people on the spectrum or have spectrum traits, while his pro-vax family has no one in the immediate family with traits or on the spectrum, only his step-aunt and step cousins have it."
"I still am recovering from her death stares at the NYE party." - OriginalDogeStar
"I used to be a librarian, and I did the storytime classes for kids and families."
"After class one week, I overheard some of the moms talking, and one of them said that they needed to find a new pediatrician because her son's doctor suggested that he might be Autistic. She said that wasn't possible because he hadn't been vaccinated, so clearly the doctor was wrong, and they needed to find a new one."
"Given my years of experience working with kids, I agree that he was probably Autistic, but there was nothing I could do to convince her."
"I still think about that poor kiddo a lot, growing up with no support in a family that wouldn't acknowledge him for who he is. I desperately hope that he's okay now." - readthethings13579
Some said they wouldn't want children to experience what they did while growing up.
"Those of us who are old enough to remember knew children who wore braces on their legs, had permanent limps, vision loss, and a whole host of disabilities as a result of these 'harmless childhood diseases.'"
"We also remember children losing their lives to things children now get vaccinated against. We also knew many children with ADHD and ASD before these vaccines were available. They may or may not have been diagnosed but they were clearly neurodiverse (my family included)."
"They are too dim to understand that the study that linked ASD to vaccinations was deeply flawed and the people who ran the study have admitted they didn't not find a link. These people are too dim to understand how dim they are and how foolish people think they are. It wouldn't be an issue if they weren't putting people's lives and wellbeing at risk." - PrincessAnnesFeather
"People also forget that not every country has a high vaccination rate (due to poverty and accessibility) and how devastating those diseases are to communities. People forget that they're incredibly privileged."
"I remember being seven and having to stay home for a week because my friend's twin sister died from measles. I'm only 32! I'm sure her parents would've given life and limb to be able to have access to vaccinations back then. I can't imagine losing my twin sister that young." - lolliberryx
"My father worked the night shift, and I remember one summer waking up every morning to hear him come home and tell my mom, who had now come down with polio."
"Some of them were our friends who went on to have permanent disabilities."
"We had to stay close to home that summer, no swimming in the neighborhood pond allowed."
"Soon after we were in long lines to get the vaccine on sugar cubes."
"When I had children, I followed their vaccination schedule exactly with no negative results." - Crnken
"On a minor scale, I'm from a generation that didn't have the chicken pox vaccine. My mom sent me to a pox party in middle school, and I got a mild case of chicken pox. About four years ago (at age 34), I came down with shingles and was the most miserable I have ever been in my life."
"It was all over my face, in my mouth, and all in my ears. I was in pain for three months and required narcotic pain management, as well as time off work and for someone to keep my daughter for me during the worst of it as I was unable to care for either of us."
"I permanently lost some hearing in my right ear, and because of the location and severity, it is very likely that I will have another shingles flare-up."
"'Luckily,' I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease a couple of years ago and put on immunosuppressants so I was finally allowed to get the shingles vaccine. This will hopefully prevent future flares."
"My daughter asked me about chicken pox because a kid at school wasn't vaccinated and got them, so I explained it to her and how it led to my shingles outbreak a few years ago. She was mortified that 'their mom wasn't smart enough to protect them from painful germs' and said that it was awful that parents could make those choices for their kids."
"She asked if she got the chicken pox vaccine and I assured her that she had, but at her next doctor appointment, she casually asked her pediatrician to check her vaccine records and if there were any others she should get."
"She actually listened and asked for the HPV vaccine when her Ped said that was one she recommends and why, so we went ahead and started that series for her. Because she's under age 15, she only has to get two shots instead of three, so being proactive is smart."
"It's so important to educate ourselves about these things, to do better than our parents could with the information we have, and of course, to listen to our children. OP, I'm sorry, but I don't think your wife will do any of that." - jinxlover13
The subReddit understood that this must have been a shocking discovery for the OP to make, but as much as he loved his wife, he had an important decision to make.
Not only would staying married to her and trying to have children with her impact the lives of the OP's future children's health, but it might impact his health, as well, if his wife ever disagreed with him about possible treatments.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp