When we're under verbal attack, our natural instinct is to either ignore the comment or retaliate.
But when the person with whom you're having beef with is a family member, the things you say in response can be misinterpreted, and therefore, exacerbate the problem.
A woman experienced this with her sister, and it started with initial good news that went south quickly.
After causing drama, she visited the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit to seek judgment from strangers online.
There, Redditor Empty-Button-6511 asked:
"AITA for telling my sister her baby isn't a real baby"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (26 F[female]) got engaged to my fiance on January 1st. I was very excited to share with my family of course, and everyone congratulated me and my fiance."
"I sent a picture of my ring to my family group chat as well as my Instagram and everyone has been commenting on the fact I got a very big diamond. My diamond is a lab grown diamond that is just under 5ct.
"I specifically asked for a lab diamond as I believe they're more ethical, as you never know if a mined diamond is a blood diamond."
"My sister (31 F[female]) was very excited for me but as soon as I showed her my ring her mood changed and she was telling me that it was too flashy and that its not practicical and that it's too trendy and 'not timeless.' "
The OP continued:
"My ring is a pear shaped solitare ring with a marquis band and I LOVE it. My sister then told me that there was no way that my fiance could afford my ring (true if it was a mined diamond it would be 10x the price and my fiance is a second year resident) and that I should test to see if it's a real diamond."
"I replied that since it's a lab diamond it was a lot less expensive. She then proceeded to tell me how lab diamonds aren't real diamonds and since they're made in a lab it doesn't hold the same sentimental value. My sister's ring is a small 1ct mined diamond and it's beautiful, I never said anything bad about her ring and it suits her."
"I tried to laugh it off and I told her that I asked for a lab diamond and that I don't want a mined diamond. When I said that she started yelling at me that it wasn't even a real diamond in the first place and that it was grown in a lab not the ground."
What followed was the conflict that brought here here.
"That's when said by her logic, my niece wasn't a real baby then because she was an IVF baby and grown in a lab too. My sister and her husband had a lot of issues conceiving as my sister had some complications with endometriosis."
"Their IVF journey was really tough and they had multiple rounds and attempts, and one miscarriage but finally got lucky and had my very healthy neice last year."
"I know my sister had a hard time conceiving, that was kind of the point I was making, my niece started in a lab but she has beautiful meaning behind her life too. When I made the comment that my niece wasn't a real baby because she was an IVF baby my sister started crying over the phone."
"Her husband then called me and berated me and told me I was insensitive and couldn't understand the depths of her emotional turmoil and that I shouldn't have started a fight over a ring. He even said I was ableist??? I have endometriosis too."
"My mom says it's not a big deal but I should let my sister cool off. I usually babysit my niece pretty often but my sister hasn't been answering my calls for a week. My fiance says although I probably shouldn't have said that, I was justified. I didn't mean it seriously, I know my neice is a real baby and I adore her and spoil her all the time. Am I the a**hole?"
The OP updated the post with the following edit:
"As of this morning my sister has called me asking for a babysitter. I suspected that this would be why she would call me as I have been babysitting for free when no one else in our family or BIL family will."
"She apologized that her husband called me and cussed me out but she didn't apologize for her comments, I apologized for what I said as it was insensitive but explained to her that she misunderstood what I meant."
"And to everyone who is confused, I do not think IVF babies are not real babies. Obviously. I was so taken aback that some of you guys read my post and thought that."
"I said by my SISTER'S OWN LOGIC she thinks her baby isn't a real baby because apparently things can't be real if they're grown in a lab to her. The point I was making was my diamond is real just like her baby is real."
Anonymous strangers weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
Many Redditors had mixed thoughts, but a good majority thought she was not the a**hole (NTA) here.
"ESH but I think OP's point in using this illustration is that both the diamond and the niece are very real. Sister is probably extra sensitive about this issue because of the trauma of IVF and everything they've been through. But OP is saying I would never use your logic that something from a lab isn't real because I would never say your child isn't real."
"She had to know the comparison was not going to go over successfully. But if we were robots, it holds up logically. Now everyone go to your separate corners until you cool off and feel ready to apologize." – OneOfTheLocals
"Mhm. I think the important thing here is that you made a point to take your sister's reasoning (aka something grown in a lab isn't real) and applied it to something else that you both know of. You didn't bring it up out of nothing and it also doesn't represent your actual thoughts, it's just a far extension of your sister's argument."
"Your sister started a stupid fight, I think because she is jealous of your ring and felt the need to put you down. You hit her where it hurts, not going to lie, but she set herself up for it."
"I wanna say justified a-hole, but as there isn't such an option, I'm gonna go with NTA because hey. Your niece did start in a lab. There is nothing wrong with that, and if your sister isn't ready to admit that perhaps she shouldn't talk shit about things being "from a lab"."
"Congrats on the engagement and ring, I'm sure it's beautiful." – katbelleinthedark
"Her mom's response tells me everything I need to know about the sisters' dynamics. Sister is emotionally driven, and OP is logical. NTA, and while it would have been kind to walk away, sometimes unhinged behavior needs a proper shutdown. The sister has probably treated OP this way all their lives, and OP shouldn't always be the one who shows kindness and compassion and walks away." – Planty_Plants474
"NTA -- you didn't really tell your sister that her baby is not a real baby, you used the comparison as a way to show her how idiotic her arguments were. And you are right." – Campyloobster
"NTA..however, your sister is the AH. Who the F cares if your ring is lab-grown or a blood diamond? You are extremely happy with it & that's all that should matter. What doesn't matter is her opinion. I understand your reasoning to equate that your diamond is not real vs her baby wasn't conceived the natural way, just like your diamond."
"She will never see it that way, & will never have the emotional capacity to equate the two in the terms of how both, baby & diamond were created."
"Best way forward is to apologize to your sister for stating her baby wasn't a real baby. Your BIL, deal with him at a later date. I would like to express to your sister how hurtful her comment was & going on & on about your diamond not holding a sentimental value. She insulted you & she should hear about it & let her know she is the only one that has a problem with your diamond, not you." – AbjectMagazine9826
"NTA I am going against everyone else. They keep saying that you did something wrong by comparing her statement to a previous real life scenario."
"Thats how having a conversation/discussion works. You never said your niece was lesser than you; your sister is just now caught in a space she can't get out of because what you said was right. If your sister insists that lab grown anything = not real or not valuable. Then she is saying her own lab grown child is that. But she doesn't have a reason why that's not true by her own logic, so instead, she melted down and threw a hissy fit."
"She wanted to be right; she wanted to demean and belittle both of you; she wanted to live in her envy and jealousy. Now she gets to sit there and not be able to come back from what an awful thing she said truly was. She either has to admit your ring is valid, or she ignores you and hopes other people join in on her pity party."
"If she wasn't willing to have that conversation/discussion, she shouldn't have thrown the glove." – WhisperingWillowWisp
Overall, Redditors thought the OP was unfairly drawing a conclusion based on logic, while the sister initiated the drama by minimizing the value of the lab-grown diamond.
Redditors could understand both points of view but ultimately believed the siblings should take some time out for themselves to cool off before things unravel further.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp