Some people dream of one day finding the love of their life and walking down the aisle to exchange their wedding vows with them.
Others believe that long-term relationships and love can exist but that marriage is just a piece of paper.
Very rarely can these two ideologies come together in a relationship and live happily ever after, cringed the users of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit....
Even if they have a baby together.
Redditor throwthrow_50 knew that her boyfriend thought marriage was a scam but hoped that he might change his mind on the subject when she became pregnant with their child.
Not only did he not change his mind, but he wanted the baby to have his last name instead of hers.
When she refused to give the baby his last name without a wedding ring, the Original Poster (OP) was shocked that he went so far as to accuse her of holding the baby's name "hostage" and was using the baby's familial status as a way to pressure him into marriage.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for giving my baby my last name?"
The OP and her boyfriend did not share the same views on marriage.
"So here is the dilemma: My boyfriend (30 Male) and I (28 Female) have been dating for three years and living together for two, but we are not married."
"Moreover, he proclaims that he doesn't believe in formal marriage and says it's a scam for men. I honestly don't know why because we both work, earn about the same, and otherwise, he's a good partner."
"I wanted to get married but kind of rolled with it because I figured we were both still young."
The OP had a lot of thinking to do when a big change happened in their relationship.
"Recently, we've had an 'oops,' and I got pregnant. While it wasn't planned, we talked about children before and both wanted to be parents eventually."
"A baby is a big change in dynamics, though, and it brought marriage back to the front of my mind."
"However, he wants to give the baby his last name, and I think that no ring means that the baby gets my last name."
The OP was reluctant to compromise, and her boyfriend accused her of scamming him.
"Sidenote: We both have good jobs. I don't rely on him for money or bills, and I have good enough savings and income to support myself and this baby, even if my boyfriend wasn't in the picture."
"Though we're still early in the pregnancy, I've done a lot of thinking, and I am not staying home. For now, the plan is to spend the first six months with my baby on maternity leave, and then I'll select a daycare and pump breastmilk to go back to work."
"My parents have also expressed a desire to move closer and help if I need emergency babysitting, so that might happen, too."
"He stands by his belief that marriage is a scam, but I don't want the baby to have his name. If he bails before or after our baby arrives, it would be more difficult for me to raise a baby that I don't share a last name with."
"Now he is saying that I am holding the baby's name hostage and pressuring him into marriage, and that I am an AH."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that the baby's name was a sign of lineage and commitment.
"NTA. Marriage and babies taking the man's last name is an old tradition, and if he doesn't believe in marriage, then why does he believe it matters whose last name the baby has?" - Interesting_Swan_193
"If you take the fact that your boyfriend doesn't believe in marriage out of the equation, why is he any more entitled to give the baby his last name than you, the person who is carrying the baby?" - ilp456
"Marriage is a scam... for men?"
"The women are out here getting pregnant and risking their health, their life, and will statistically be the ones to raise the baby when they break up... but it's a scam... for me?"
"NTA, OP. There's no reason whatsoever to stick to tradition only when it comes to the name, especially when he thinks marrying you would be such a scam that he's accusing you of hustling him over this baby. Give me a break." - RiverSong_777
"NTA, OP. Men LOVE to pick and choose which 'traditions' apply to them."
"Baby out of wedlock? Sure, whatever. Hey, don't sue me for child support!"
"Baby not having his last name? But it's TRADITION!"
"He wants to have all the control and credit and medals without the commitment of marriage or actual parenting. This is giving, 'I have a daughter, and I've done nothing to actually raise her and be a father to her, but d**mit, she better let me walk her down the aisle.'" - Sage_Planter
"Choosing your baby's last name is also about establishing your child's identity. If he's not committed enough to marry, why should he get to decide the name?"
"It's fair for you to want your child's last name to reflect your family and your relationship with her, too. You know you're going to stick around; regrettably, he might not if he thinks this is all a 'scam.' NTA." - ValeriaBerries
Others cautioned the OP against letting the baby take their father's name without marriage.
"NTA."
"As someone who did the opposite, let me tell you something about the consequences:"
"1. Despite being very little involved, baby daddy could have taken our daughter out of the country, no questions asked. Me? I had to provide a birth certificate to prove that we're related. Just in case, I usually also had proof of sole custody with me. Because you never know."
"2. Worse: Baby daddy eventually got married. And even his wife could have taken our daughter out of the country, no questions asked. Because of the same family name. Me? Still not."
"3. Where I am from, changing a child's name is easy when (if) you marry their father. But changing a child's name if you never get married is impossible. (Germany is great that way.)"
"Honestly? Don't let your child have any family name you don't have. Never. If he doesn't believe in marriage, he shouldn't believe in passing on his name, either."
"Also, how are you holding the baby's last name hostage? It's not like you're trying to blackmail him into marrying you. You're just stating that your child and you will share a family name. Period. Because it's you growing that little human." - melympia
"I've known a few women who kept their married name after they divorced because they wanted their kid's name and theirs to match. Supposedly makes things easier for school and such."
"So if the baby has her name and they stay together or split up, mom and baby's last names match. NTA." - twopointsisatrend
"If he doesn't want to legally give YOU his last name, he doesn't get to 'brand' the baby."
"Look at it like this (and feel free to bring this to his attention):"
"You're not legally married, and he thinks it's a scam against men, which tells me he's not marriage material in the first place. He doesn't trust women, thinks they're out to get men, blah, blah. I don't make him as a guy who's going to stick around through thick and thin, sickness and health, richer or poorer. He is a walking billboard for, 'I'm not all in, this is not family.'"
"So when he leaves, at least don't be having to explain why your child has a different last name."
"Think hard about going through with this pregnancy WITH HIM, dear. Men who make the best fathers are men who embrace their children's mothers." - definitelytheA
"Newsflash: It's not that he thinks marriage is outdated or old-fashioned; it's probably that he doesn't want to be tied down."
"The intentionally having a kid with someone you will never marry confuses me. You are willing to have a huge commitment like a child but not marriage? I'd say he wants the perks of having a family, but when things get rough, he leaves."
"If he's accusing you of using the baby to pressure him into marriage, you might want to reconsider your relationship. That's a hurtful accusation to toss out."
"I think you and your baby would be better off without him. NTA." - A_Clever_Theme
"The mother is usually the main caregiver, and she has the most contact with official people. Doctors, teachers, etc. It is a barrier and hassle to not have the same name as the child in that situation."
"The dad could leave at any time, and the mom will have to deal, so the mom chooses."
"She doesn't even have to put the boyfriend down on the birth certificate if they are not married if she doesn't want to! He only sees one side of the equation and is like, 'MY last name, d**mit, MY NAME,' and she could be like, 'Ha, your name isn't even ON the paper, bro, who are you?'"
"This is why marriage provides legal protection. Boyfriend may think it's a scam, but here is a great example! Marriage gives you rights." - kittyscopeview
After receiving feedback, the OP shared the compromise she reached with her boyfriend.
"Many people are proposing that we hyphenate our last names as a solution, but both of our names are long and pretty difficult to spell as is. Mine is a long-a** Italian name, and his is a long-a** Norwegian one. A hyphenated last name will make the kid sound like some kind of royalty, lol."
"The overwhelming majority here have favored the baby having my last name, which makes me feel much less crazy. Too much could go wrong if he keeps refusing to marry me, and I want to be able to give this baby the best childhood and care I can."
"Since reading your comments, my boyfriend and I have reached a compromise. The baby will have my last name as their last name, and they will have his last name as their middle name."
"Their first name will be a name that's traditionally passed down in his family, depending on whether they are a boy or a girl. No matter how this goes, I want them to have their father in their life and feel connected to him and to his family, and their passed down names are beautiful, so I'm happy with this decision."
"Also, for those who asked, if my boyfriend and I were to ever split, and then I found someone else to date and marry, I'd decide then whether I wanted to keep my name or change it, and I'd also let my child decide what they wanted their name to be."
The subReddit couldn't help but side-eye the OP's boyfriend not only for not wanting to commit to marriage after getting his girlfriend pregnant but also for accusing her of "pressuring him" into marriage and holding their baby's name "hostage."
If he wanted to be a committed father, the reality was that he needed to be a committed partner to the OP. Even if he didn't love the idea of marriage in the legal sense, it made sense for the three of them to share the same name and household.
If the boyfriend refused to see it that way, it might be better for the OP and her child to start fresh after they were born, whether her boyfriend wanted to be in his child's life or not. He'd have to commit to something: staying in touch.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp