Our past is as much about mistakes as it is about achievement.
For every celebration, there is some error in judgment that we learned and hopefully grown from.
So how long should we be held to the standard of our mistakes?
That was the issue facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) broken_inside_me when she came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for judgment.
She asked:
"AITA for kicking out my brother, who our parents have previously disowned, because he told my (now ex) fiancé that I cheated 9 years ago?"
OP began with an introduction.
"For reference, my brother Connor is 19, I am 26, and my (now ex) fiancé Hunter is 28."
"Also for reference, already mentioned in the title, but my brother was kicked out when he was 16 because our parents snooped through his phone and found out he was in gay."
OP explained the situation at hand,
"Connor had a birthday last weekend, so he invited his friends over, and they were all (18-22-year-olds) drinking and playing games."
"Hunter and I were about to head out to let them have the place to themselves when Connor asked if we wanted to join them."
"I initially refused (bit too old to be playing drinking games), but he insisted, and Hunter thought it'd be fun to act like college students again."
"We all got pretty drunk, and Connor had the idea of playing Never Have I Ever."
Everything was fine, until...
"A few rounds in, the statement 'Never Have I Ever cheated before' came up."
"Now's a good time to mention that Hunter is staunchly against cheating."
"His ex-fiancé cheated on him, and it emotionally wrecked him."
"And unfortunately, as a lot of dumb, immature 17-year-olds do, I cheated on my 'boyfriend' of 5 months."
"It was a stupid mistake, he found out, and (understandably) ended things."
"This was almost a decade ago, I obviously learned my lesson, and look back at that time with shame (and obviously never cheated since)."
"Well my brother knows about this so when I didn't drink, he went 'hey sis, what the hell? You know you cheated on (insert ex's name). You have to drink to that!'"
"My boyfriend paused, looked at me, looked at him, and just walked out of the room."
"I followed him and tried to talk to tell him that it was a stupid teenage mistake, but he wasn't haven't any of it and ended things on the spot."
"I'm numb."
"I'm heartbroken."
"He was my everything and more, and I still don't know how I'm going to move on."
"Connor tried to apologize, but I feel nothing but sadness and emptiness."
"This morning I served him an eviction notice."
"He begged me to stay and said he didn't mean to ruin my relationship and he just didn't think when he said those words."
"I just can't look at him right now. He ruined my life. After I raised him and cared for him like he was my own."
OP was left to wonder,
"I feel so hurt. Am I being unreasonable? AITA?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: ESH
Responses were conflicted.
"INFO - Did your brother know that your (ex) fiancé would have such a dramatic reaction?"
"I am not going to go all the way to saying you're an A - but I don't think you should kick him out over this, especially if he didn't know how virulently opposed to you ever having cheated your fiancé would be."
"Your fiancé, though - that is a big reaction. I'm not sure 100% willing to call him an A either, but ... he needs to figure himself out." ~ RLRicki
Some pointed out that OP was being hypocritical.
"I just want to be sure we talk about this on the same level."
"You made a mistake as a teenager and should be forgiven because (1) you were a teenager and teenagers are stupid and (2) you learned your lesson."
"But your teenage brother should be held to a high punishment for his actions...?"
"Really?"
"He was a stupid teenager when he pulled this."
"You were a stupid teenager when you cheated."
"You tried to lie to keep from any punishment but want to punish him for his mistake." ~ SelfANew
"This is exactly why OP is the a**hole."
"Kicking out a teenage boy because he said something during a drinking game that he had no idea would explode in everyone's faces?"
"How can you even react like that when you are the one that raised that boy from 16 onwards? Does she really feel so little for her brother?" ~ hermionecannotdraw
"Your brother is barely older than you were when you made an immature teenage mistake by cheating on your boyfriend, and you certainly deserve to be forgiven for that."
"It was a dumb move, but he didn't mean any harm and seems genuinely remorseful."
"We've all done dumb things without thinking as teenagers."
"Don't trash your relationship with your brother because of your fiancé's issues. This is clearly not just about one instance of cheating as a teenager." ~ kittykalista
Others suspected the toxicity actually belonged to the boyfriend.
"Reading OPs other comments I suspect it's more to do with her relationship with her ex than that she doesn't care about her brother."
"He seems ... controlling/manipulative, and I feel like her reaction to kick out her brother is likely the only way she can think of to show how much she wants to 'keep' her ex and apologize/grovel enough for his liking."
"The whole thing sounds toxic tbh" ~ annshine
"One thing we know is the OP loves the ex way more than the ex loves her."
"This massive power discrepancy in the relationship would have been a recipe for abuse anyway." ~ MonkeyRexo
"I'm actually wondering about this equation here:"
"Fiance way overreacting"
"You don't see anything weird about this"
"You are willing to throw away your relationship with your little brother you consider 'like your own' as a consequence."
"I don't think you're okay OP."
"To me, this is smoke that says there is a fire somewhere."
"I think your fiance may have been gaslighting you on his bad behavior for a while to get you to this point."
"You are walking on eggshells to please him and throw blame for his issues on anyone but him."
"I know that these words get thrown around a lot on Reddit, but definitely don't do anything rash until you sort it out, and seeking therapy is a great first step."
"I have been thinking this one over and (without reading any comments replying) decided that gaslighting was an armchair psychology step too far."
"What I really meant was that OP has become used to placating her fiance instead of compromising when they fight."
"As a person who hates yelling and anger and avoids conflict, I can see how easy it is to always be the one making peace."
"I feel like she's become so used to it that she's now accepting all responsibility for conflicts and not laying enough at his feet."
"This is like gaslighting adjacent but maybe not intentional on the fiance's part."
"OP is getting professional therapy already, so it's not really a harmful suggestion to throw out for the sake of discussion, but I also feel like it's an extreme that the information given doesn't warrant." ~ AzureShell
Responses were very thorough.
"I'm going to have to say ESH."
"Why your brother is TA"
"Bringing up your regretful teenaged mistakes is a huge no-no."
"I don't know why he would think exclaiming to everyone 'hey everyone, my sister is a cheater' was a great move, but I get that it was because he was drunk."
"Alcohol does make you do stupid things."
"I can easily see how the lack of judgment caused by inebriation could lead to him thinking that was an acceptable thing to do."
"Why your fiancé is TA"
"Probably the most controversial of them but I think your ex-fiancé sucks the most."
"I get being hurt in the past because of cheating (I know that pain all too well), but he's holding a mistake you made when you were a teenager against you."
"Assuming you're being honest, you never cheated on him, you've never given any indication that you did, and the relationship was otherwise fulfilling."
"Breaking off an engagement over something you did a decade ago is overkill."
"Why you're TA"
"You're misdirecting your anger."
"I get being upset because your fiancé left you, but I think that's more of a fiancé problem than a brother problem."
"From your story, he wasn't being malicious, and he's obviously remorseful."
"No great relationship should end that suddenly and without warning, especially considering it happened a decade ago."
"I wouldn't let this blimp ruin an otherwise good relationship with your brother. Forgive him." ~ [deleted]
Large or small, our errors will always find us.
There is nothing we can do to fix an error that we made, whether that mistake was a day or a decade ago. But that doesn't mean we can't try to hold ourselves to higher standards.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp