Even in this day and age, a person's coming-out is a very private matter.
There are still a lot of homophobic people in the world.
So the coming-out process can still be delicate to navigate.
There can be a lot of missteps along the way.
Some parents don't learn as quickly.
Redditor PeanutTraditional555 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback, so naturally, he came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
He asked:
"AITA for telling my houseguest about my son?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (38 M[ale]) live with my son (20 M)."
"His mom is not in the picture, and I have no other children."
"Last year, my son came out as gay."
"While it was not something I am familiar with, I of course accepted him because he's my son and I love him."
"It was surprising because my son typically presents as very masculine and was very athletic and into sports growing up, and still is. "
"I apologize if that's not P[olitically] C[orrect] to say I'm still learning, but it is important to this story."
"When my son came out to me, I asked how open he wanted to be with it, and he said it's not a secret, and anyone can know."
"I've casually mentioned to other people that my son is gay, and he's never had an issue with it."
"About a month ago, my friend (40 M) asked me if his son (22 M) could live with us for a while."
"He started grad school, and my house is close to the school."
"I'm very close to my friend, and his son is like a nephew to me, but our sons have only met a few times (my friend moved to the other side of the country when his son was 5)."
"I was worried it would be weird for my friend's son, but he got very comfortable right away, almost too comfortable."
"I found that he was very comfortable being at home wearing nothing but skivvies, which I would never do in someone else's house, but maybe this generation is different."
"I've always been on sports teams and in this kind of culture, so it didn't bother me, but it occurred to me that he might not know my son is gay and might not be doing this if he did know."
"I tried to bring it up in a way that I thought was subtle (I mentioned a date my son went on and kept saying 'he') to my friend's son, and I guess he got the hint."
"He started being dressed more, especially when my son's home."
"One day, he mentioned my son being gay, and my son asked him how he knew."
"He said I told him."
"My son privately came to me and asked if I told our houseguest about him being gay, so he'd wear more clothes."
"I said he deserved to know so he could decide if he felt comfortable doing that, and it seems like he isn't."
"My son got mad and said we were being homophobic."
"I asked if anything else had changed between them besides him wearing more than underwear (he and my son have been bonding), and my son admitted no."
"I told him that if he is this upset about our houseguest wearing clothes, I clearly did the right thing by telling him."
"My son is calling me the AH, but I don't think I did anything wrong."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So... AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question, AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP WAS the A**hole.
"YTA, why are you treating your son so weirdly?"
"Like some sort of sexual beast?"
"He isn't gonna be after every guy ever."
"You are being homophobic." ~ BluenaSnowey
"Sorry, but YTA."
"Just because your son is gay doesn't mean he's some deviant that can't control himself around men."
"The fact that you're thinking SO much about this whole thing is quite unusual."
"I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with making your son's sexuality such a focal point."
"You really need to figure out a way to stop having that subconsciously define to you who you think your son is." ~ slackerchic
"I don't think the issue is that your son is gay."
"I think the issue is that you conveyed to your friend's son that he should feel unsafe in the home dressing as he pleases because your son is gay."
"You weren't telling the kid your son was gay; you were warning him, and that's the problem."
"You are doing what many people do, confusing gay people with criminals."
"Your son is gay, and unless you've left something out, he's not a criminal."
"Did you think he might blindly attack the man because he was partially unclothed?"
"Quick edit to say the second paragraph was maybe harsher than it should be."
"Don't default to internalized aggressions."
"Acknowledge them and understand why your son is upset." ~ Caliopebookworm
"I mean, this could be read that he was worried his son would come on to the houseguest, but I read it more as information so he could make an informed decision knowing how he might be viewed."
"I dress differently if I'm hanging out with lesbians vs straight girls, and I dress very differently around my gay guy friends and straight guy friends because I know that I'll be perceived differently."
"It's not because I'm worried about assault, it's just information about how I will be viewed and looked at." ~ Responsible-Chair-25
"Personally, I would have told the young man he needs to be clothed when he comes out of his room, that it is not respectful to you to run around in just his underwear."
"Nothing to do with your son or his sexual preference." ~ Sweet-Necessary3257
"To be fair, homophobes are usually worried that gay men will treat them the same way straight men treat women."
"Same thing with the whole 'It doesn't bother me as long as they don't hit on me.'"
"As though they are even attractive enough in any regard."
"Definitely YTA, but maybe his son will make it big someday by telling the stories of growing up with a homophobic father." ~ TARDISkitty
"YTA. Rather than scapegoating your son, you could have told your house guest that he needed to stop wandering around in his underwear and put on some clothes." ~ naranghim
"You're not the ahole for telling him your son's gay, YTA for implying he's a sexual predator who your houseguest shouldn't feel safe around." ~ a_fictionalcharacter
"Oh, no, still YTA for outing the son when he had not done so himself."
"How did he know (or did he even consider) that the guest was a safe person to inform?"
"What if they were homophobic?"
"What if the son was out to the dad but not to friends yet?"
"It is up to the individual as to when or even whether they disclose." ~ Wooden-Helicopter-
"YTA... you used your son's sexuality to correct someone else's behaviour you found uncomfortable, whether you admit that or not."
"You went out of your way to make someone feel uncomfortable around your son."
"That's pretty awful." ~ RoyallyOakie
"YTA. The problem is not that you told your guest that your son is gay."
"The problem is that you didn't want to tell the guest that you have a problem with their lack of clothing, and decided to use your son as a prop to that effect, hoping that the guest would be creeped out."
"Perhaps it's just me, but I don't see myself ever using my son as a threatening element towards a guest, when I could just have a conversation with them like a proper adult."
"And you didn't even clear that plan with your son beforehand..." ~ Naiinsky
"No one 'deserves' to know someone else's sexuality."
"Also, you're weird to turn this around on your son like he was somehow being creepy towards your guest, which is EXTREMELY inappropriate."
"If the only reason you mentioned it was the level of clothing the guest was wearing, then yeah, you're being weird, but those two comments solidly make it YTA." ~ Objective_Air8976
"YTA. What I'm reading here is that you were uncomfortable with how relaxed your houseguest was, so you used your son's sexuality to get your houseguest to wear more clothes."
"Considering you also implied you thought all men were predators in another comment about a hypothetical straight son and a woman houseguest, I think you might have deeper issues." ~ lord_wigglesworth
"YTA and stereotyping your son."
"Many gay men are both athletic and into sports; some even play for national and major league sports."
"It's so weird that you think the second he said he was gay, his normal hobbies and routines would stop."
"You really need to sit with yourself and do more reconciliation on your feelings before you start telling people about your son's sexual orientation." ~ starwyo
"YTA, but I hope in the 'I'm trying to learn/challenge my own biases so that I will be less of an AH moving forward' kind of way."
"Because, honestly, most straight people who have grown up in heteronormative cultures have been there."
"It's not an excuse to STAY there, though."
"It's a call to action."
"You didn't mention checking with your son to see if HE was comfortable with someone else moving into his home!?!?"
"So… you kind of just sold him out, prioritized someone else's child, and acted like your son has predatory tendencies because he's gay."
"It doesn't matter if that was your intention; that seems to have been your impact." ~ StrategyDouble4177
"YTA 100%."
"You framed your son's gayness as being predatory and insinuated that because he's gay, he is automatically sexualizing your friend's son, and that's not only homophobic but very presumptuous."
"You made your guest and your son uncomfortable because you are still early in your journey in understanding your own biases against gay men."
"FYI, being gay does not = attracted to all men."
"Even if your son was attracted to him, you implied his character was depraved and damaged all of your relationships."
"Sad for both young men." ~ C*ntasaurus_wrecks
Reddit is not with you, OP.
It sounds like you have a lot to learn.
Just telling your houseguest flat out, without the hinting and baiting, probably would've been more helpful.
It may be time for a serious, sincere chat between the three of you.
Good Luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp