Everyone is welcome to have their own opinions, their own interest, and their own religion, and we should understand that we won't have everything in common even with our closest of close loved ones.
But some people refuse to accept that someone might not share their beliefs, especially when it comes to religion, cringed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Once his family began to attend church, Redditor TheWizardy90 found it really difficult to spend time with his family, who turned every family event into a prayer circle and sermon.
When his family ruined his birthday by taking it over with prayer and planned to do the same for his son's upcoming birthday, the Original Poster (OP) decided it was time to take a step back.
He asked the sub:
"AITAH for telling my family that if they're going to have a 15-minute prayer before my son's birthday party dinner and lecture everyone about God, they should just not show up?"
The OP was struggling to stay in touch with his family now that they were religious.
"I am a single father of three."
"My family (mother, sisters, and grandparents) became extremely involved with the Christian church over two years ago. So much so that it has become a chore just to visit any of them since all they want to talk about is their religion."
"When we get together, it's never, 'How have you been? How's work? How are you?' It is always, 'When are you going to join us at church? The Holy Spirit really helped me this week. Have you read the Bible I gave you?'"
"Honestly, when I have to spend more than an hour with them, I feel like I need to sleep for the next 12 hours to recover. I now try to distance myself from them as much as I can and just spend time with my kids."
"Last year, my mother asked if she could take my kids to get ice cream and go to the park. Little did I know it was a church-related event and my daughter quickly called me to pick them up because 'a man was speaking into a microphone and people were fainting all around them and crying to god.' That was the last time I let them go with my family alone."
His family's religious demands ruined the OP's most recent birthday.
"My birthday was in April and I had friends, family, and coworkers over just to relax and take time off, swim a little, and play backyard games."
"When it came time to eat, my mother took it upon herself to make a huge speech about how it was and still is difficult raising a son who does not believe in religion and her testimony that god is the way. I felt the ambiance change and everyone got uncomfortable."
"After that, I tried to blow it off and continued entertaining people who were there. That's when my family brought out their pamphlets and began going to everyone and preaching to them, talking to them for ten minutes at a time."
"I pulled my mom to the side and told her that this was not the place nor the time for all of that."
"She apologized and they left soon after."
The OP would not let the same thing happen at his son's birthday party.
"My son's birthday is coming up and while at my mom's house for Memorial Day, she quickly asked me if it was okay to speak to some people about the lord at his birthday."
"I took it upon myself to inform everyone if they are going to act like a congregation to a child's birthday party to just not show up, period."
"Everyone looked upset at me. Now I have them calling and texting me, saying I should be ashamed of myself for 'denying the lord to people.'"
"I honestly want to just cut them all off because these past couple of years have been insufferable."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some pointed out to the OP that his family likely would not respect his boundaries.
"NTA. Don't let them come. You know they will not respect your wishes."
"They think your wishes are wrong, so why should they respect them? It's inconceivable to them that their efforts aren't exactly what their god wants and expects of them."
"In their eyes, you're someone who needs to be saved, and they undoubtedly feel that your son will benefit from hearing about their religion."
"I wish you luck." - miyuki_m
"They did all of that while at your house with your friends at your party. What nerve! It's so disrespectful to hijack someone else's event for their agenda."
"It's your event, your rules. Your son's birthday party, still your rules. They need to respect your boundaries and can make other plans if they decide they 'can't'." - AdkRaine12
"I'm having a hard time deciding which is worse, OP's proselytizing parents at parties or people who get engaged at someone else's wedding. Maybe the Venn Diagram is a circle." - alleecmo
"Jesus said, 'When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men… but when you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your father who is unseen.'"
"The OP's family isn't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They are doing it for attention and to prove who the 'better' Christian is. They are the hypocrites, and they are the ones who are hard to live with. Not the OP." - Batbuckleyourpants
"My sister walked out of her husband's funeral because instead of a celebration of his life like she wanted, it ended up being a come-to-Jesus meeting."
"Many people told her that if they knew the reason she walked out, they would have joined her. No one wants religion shoved down their throats unless they are expecting it, like at church."
"NTA."
"You also don't gain many converts when the people are just p**sed that they have to hear this at a party... The OP's family is really just wasting their time when they could be connecting with their family." - SuccessfulPiccolo945
"She really said, 'denying the Lord...' Lady, WE'VE HEARD IT HUNDREDS OF TIMES. PLEASE STOP LECTURING US. WE KNOW ALREADY!!"
"I feel really bad for this kid if they attend, because all anyone will remember are the preachy religious weirdos at a kid's birthday party. Then they'll probably associate that with the kid, which won't be great for their social life. 'No, we're not having [OP's kid] over for a play date, his family are a bunch of pain in the a** freaks, and I don't want to hear a d**n sermon at pick-up time.'"
"I really wish I could spend a day without any self-awareness or shame and just be an a**hole and force my opinions on people In inappropriate situations."
"OP should say, 'It's my kid's birthday, and the day is about him, not you and your need to convert people. If you can't be unselfish enough to let the day be about your grandson, then you don't deserve to celebrate it with him.'"
"But she'll probably burst into tears and blah blah Jesus blah blah savior blah blah persecuting me me me me me." - NothingAndNow111
Others empathized with the OP about thinking of going low- to no-contact.
"I would NEVER attend another event where I thought I (or my children) were going to be proselytized to."
"Stand up for yourself. And your children. And tell your family to kindly f**k off. Tell them you're Satanists." - ommnian
"NTA! I would be very offended if I attended what I thought was a birthday party and got lectured about religion. I would warn them that if they came to your home and opened their mouth about religion, it would be the last time they would be allowed to visit."
"Years ago, I went no contact with my mother because of her trying to force her religion on me. It took her two years to learn the lesson, but she hasn't attempted to 'convert' me since." - FoundationWinter3488
"There was a guy at my college campus with a big 'Repent Now!' sign and people were asking him questions."
"I pointed out that public prophesizing was for hypocrites and asked, 'Isn't that what you are doing right now?' And he said, 'No, I'm not doing this for posterity. I'm doing it to save your soul. I'm doing God's work.'"
"I don't think anything I could have said (I was raised Catholic, and I know a thing or two) would have changed his mind. These people think they are saving us and that gives them a free pass to do whatever they want."
"There's really no having a relationship with them at this point. They can't hear you. I'd personally go no contact or incredibly low contact until something changes, if it ever does. Sorry, OP. NTA to you." - Master_Ad_7945
"Go no contact, OP. Your wishes are not respected by your family. Even the Bible says that there is a time for everything. Time to cry, pray, laugh, sing, drink, celebrate... They need to be better."
"Cut them off so they realize that there are consequences for their s**tty behavior." - Fair_Text1410
"NTA. I would text them the following:"
"'I'm not ashamed, but you should be for assuming you hold the keys to heaven because no one else you encounter could possibly have their own spiritual life. That is extremely arrogant, rude, and false since God didn't put you in charge of our part of the country that I've heard.'"
"'You are not welcome at any parties or other events I hold unless you can develop some humility, because it's not all about you and your religious beliefs. If you ever apologize for pretending my home is your church and my guests are your congregation or just lost souls to pick up, then we'll talk.'"
"'In the meantime, leave my son and myself alone until you recover from thinking you are saints and remember you have family that you need to treat like real people with feelings.'"
"Best of luck, OP." - julesk
"Tell them you have no opinion about their religion. It's the fact that they are constantly being HORRIFICALLY RUDE and refusing to care about the feelings of others that has brought you to this place."
"Nothing in the Bible requires them to be this rude. It's a choice they are making and it's not okay. The way they are treating you is not loving and is incredibly disrespectful. Make it clear that it is their behavior that is unacceptable, not their beliefs."
"If they refuse to give you or anyone else any respect, they don't deserve to be part of family events anymore. Full stop." - Adventurous-Fig2226
The subReddit was appalled by how the family's new beliefs had already begun to tarnish family gatherings and encouraged the OP to protect his son's upcoming birthday party at all costs.
Not only was a child's birthday party not the right time or place for a religious discussion, but the OP's son also deserved to have the positive memories of gathering with friends and celebrating his birthday, not witnessing his family lecturing people and potentially having friends distance themselves from him because of his family's behavior.
If the family really wanted to celebrate their grandson's birthday, they'd adjust their priorities, fast.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp