Parents always want to be there for their children, even after they grow up and fly the coop.
However, there comes a time when parents need to start teaching their children to be self-sufficient, and that they can't always rely on them.
When to do this is a touchy subject, as some feel the sooner the better, while others think they can wait till they truly hit adulthood.
In some cases, teaching moments can arrive very clearly.
Redditor Doc_Woody recently made some arrangements that he hoped would benefit his family.
Arrangements that depended on some contributions by the original poster (OP)'s son.
When his son didn't hold up his end of the bargain, the OP felt that consequences were necessary.
Worried he may have gone too far, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where he asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for docking my son's allowance the amount he made my premium go up? Not the A-hole."
The OP explained why he felt it was necessary to dock his sons allowance:
"I (50 M[ale]) just switched insurance companies to try and save money because I've instituted a monthly budget to stop our overspending in our family of 5 (48 F[emale], 19 M, 16 F, 13 F and 5 cats)."
"The new insurance company asked for 19 M's Drivers Ed Completion Certificate."
"I contacted the company who said he cannot get the certificate because he skipped the online portion."
"My son passed the in class and road tests but has an 'objection to online drivers ed because it's pointless'."
"I explained that no matter how pointless it feels, it was a term of our contract with them and he broke it, and the result is that my insurance is $13 a month more than it would have been had he completed the course."
"I still give him an allowance and I've reduced it by that $13 a month because I hold him 100% responsible for not completing his course, which cost $715 by the way."
"Am I being petty for nickeling and diming a young man and shaking him down to help pay my bills?"
"My other options included just to take him off my policy and forbid him to drive at all, or make him reimburse me the $715 I paid for his drivers ed."
"I didn't do any of that."
"I think i'm invoking a natural consequence based on real world impact and not vengeance."
"It's literally one less Mary Browns 3-piece Combo per month."
"Am I the a**hole?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community firmly agreed that the OP was not the a**hole for docking their son's allowance.
Everyone agreed that the OP did the right thing, as not only did his son not keep his end of the deal, but he deserved to face consequences with his complacent attitude:
"NTA."
"If it were me, I would have presented the options to him."
"Pay the extra premium."
"Repay the drivers ed as he didn't finish it."
"Not drive any of your vehicles."
"I am quite sure he will either take the remaining drivers ed or pay the $13!."- nwood1973
"You're wrong for considering this 'nickeling and diming' or shaking him down."
"This is called being an adult."
"He has responsibilities."
"Privileges cost money."
"Actions have consequences."
"NTA by a long shot."- ironchef8000
"NTA."
"He's paying tbe consequencs of breaking a deal he made with you leading to higher insurance costs to YOU."
"This is directly related to him failing his class."
"Taking it out of his allowance sounds very reasonable to me!"
"He can at least help for paying to retake the class, too."
"I think it'll also lower his rates later."- West_House_2085
"NTA."
"He can do a what, 5-9 hour course and be done with it and learn something….or he can pay for breaking the deal."
"I'd cut the allowance."
"It's probably not in the budget, and it's probably bets for him to start paying his own bills."
"He'd appreciate money more if he was wasting his own money."- indicatprincess
"NTA."
"Decisions have consequences, he should bear the consequence of his decision."-ontheleftcoast
"'I (50 M) just switched insurance companies to try and save money because I've instituted a monthly budget to stop our overspending in our family of 5 (48F, 19M, 16F, 13F and 5 cats)'."
"Well, I would think job one would be taking the credit cards away from those spendthrift cats..."
"NTA OP."- SrslyPissedOff
"NTA!"
"I hit another car in my dad's car."
"They made me pay the difference in the insurance increase."
"Sure as hell seemed fair to me then as a 17 year old."
"Still seems fair."- foilrat
"NTA."
"Actions have consequences regardless of how dumb they think it is."
"Enforce it to the letter."- johnnyg08
"NTA."
"You're kind and teaching him that his actions have at least some consequences."
"But has he complained?"
"You don't mention any conflict in your post."
"If he's complaining then I think you're under reacting and need to tell him it's a great privilege to receive any allowance and that if he wants more than you can provide he needs to get a job."- alexlp
"NTA."
"Actions have consequences, and he just learned one."
"It could be much, much worse."- stlorca
"NTA, I don't think you were harsh enough tbh."
"I would make him pay his portion of the insurance since he didn't want to finish the required course that ALSO cost money."
"We all have to do things in life we think are pointless."
"He's definitely being the AH here."- rollypollyollyy
"NTA."
"This feels like a natural consequence for his choices."- 90DayLEGO
"NTA."
"It's a very real impact and consequence of him not doing the responsibility that was required as a driver."
"Personally, he wouldn't have gotten the keys without completing it."
"Licensed or not, he's still under your own liability."- WholeAd2742
"NTA."
"Hello fellow Newfoundlander lol."
"I laughed out loud at 'one less Mary Browns 3-piece combo per month'."- rileysauntie
"Haha I wouldn't have been allowed to drive, full stop."
"Maybe the a**hole for not going far enough?"
"jk NTA."- dilley07
"NTA."
"Apparently online drivers ed is *not* pointless."
"FAFO."- uniqueme1
"NTA."
"The true AH move would have been to make him get his own car insurance outright."
"That would cost way more than $13 a month."- Bizlbop
"NTA."
"This is a reasonable natural consequence."- Tall-Payment-8015
"NTA."
"He might as well learn that actions have consequences while it's a relatively cheap lesson."-
Fredfredricksen01
"NTA."
"What is it these young people like to say?"
"Oh yes....FAFO."- LowerRain265
"NTA."
"This is a good lesson on choices, consequences, and probably lying."- BigGreenBillyGoat
"NTA."
"This is perfect 'Real World' consequences."
"You're reimbursed and he learns a needed lesson."
"Nice work, Dad!"
"Having him pay you back seems very reasonable."- Centraplex
"NTA."
"He's an adult, it's time he learns what that means and that means he shouldn't be getting an allowance."
"He should have a freakin job and be paying his bills."- UnfortunateDaring
"Actions and inactions have consequences."
"3rd option he can pay for his own insurance!"
"NTA."- QL58
"NTA."
"Consequences that match the action."
"You didn't take away his prom or his extracurriculars, you didn't go crazy with unrelated things."
"You just let him face the actual consequence."
"If you don't have the paper you decided not to get, it costs thirteen bucks a month."
"He unilaterally decided something was 'pointless' or 'stupid' and that cost him."
"This is a valuable lesson, because it's going to happen again and again in life, with larger risks/costs than $13.00."
"He has to genuinely pay the price and feel the sting of it."- YoshiandAims
"Your solution is reasonable, if a bit understated (I wouldn't be paying any allowance to a 19-year-old)."
"Tell him his options are to pay the extra premium, repay the $700 spent on the drivers ed course he decided not to finish, or lose all access to your vehicle(s)."
"NTA."- wesmorgan1
"It was his choice to skip the online portion of the class so he needs to pony up the extra $13/month."
"He needs to feel (monetarily) the consequences of his decision."
"NTA."- GirlDad2023_
"This is a pretty cheap lesson in consequences.:
"FAFO."
"NTA."- Impossible_Turn_7627
"Kids need to learn consequences."
"Part of being an adult is doing things you think are stupid just cause someone says they're necessary."
"Your kids will push back, and your job is to stand firm on a decision."
"You paid a lot of money for him to take that class, and he didn't complete it."
"If that allowence -13$ isn't enough money for him, he's 16 he can get a job."
"NTA."
"Your job as a parent isn't to be liked, it's to raise a human to be a functioning adult."
"This is the growing pains."
"He might not like it but he created this situation."- Marzipanjam
No doubt the OP's son will be disappointed in having his allowance docked.
That being said, some would argue that the OP's son should consider himself lucky that he still has an allowance at all at the age of 19.
Or, for that matter, that he ever had an allowance to begin with, as not all children are even that lucky.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp