Usually, when someone stays at other people's homes they do their best to be clean and courteous.
A person's home is not a hotel where everyone tends to go crazy sometimes.
That's why there are so many agreements packed into Airbnb contracts.
People don't want to come home to a mess, especially if the stay was free and someone was being given a favor.
These situations can turn to turmoil fast.
Redditor Different-Sea-9912 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for kicking my sister's boyfriend out of my vacation home?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My husband 'Ky' and I own a vacation home on Lake Michigan."
"We both own it technically, but it was his before we got married (this becomes relevant later)."
"My sister 'Lia' has been using our vacation home since Ky and I started dating."
"We don't mind."
"She is always clean and courteous, and leaves it better than she found it."
"However, she started dating her B[oy]F[riend] 'Al' about a year ago, and I can't say the same for him."
"Al is a total slob."
"He leaves dirty dishes, empty bottles, etc everywhere and expects Lia to clean up."
"He has split custody of two young kids from his ex, who he just lets run free, expecting Lia to do the work even though they're HIS kids."
"On top of that, he's told Lia to get him a beer while she's busy and he's watching TV a few times in front of Ky and me, so I can't imagine how he treats her when we're not around."
"Their house is always a mess because Lia works 60 hours a week and doesn't have the time to take care of two small kids and Al, clean, and work long hours."
"Yet somehow, I think Lia really loves Al."
"She looks at him like he is the only man in the world."
"When she talks about him, her eyes light up and her voice is sweet and melodic."
"That's why when Lia asked if she and Al could use the vacation home this week, I said yes."
"I figured what's the worst that could happen."
"Plus, Ky and I already planned on going three days after them, so we'd overlap."
"When Ky and I got there, the vacation house was a pig sty."
"It smelled like rotting food."
"There was a mountain of dirty dishes in the sink, the floor was sticky and there were drawings on the walls with crayons."
"We got to the living room, where lo and behold Lia was scrambling to pick up toys and Al was drinking a beer in a rocking chair."
"I immediately snatched the beer from his hand and asked him why he wasn't cleaning the mess he made."
"He asked why I assumed it was him and not Lia."
"I said it's because I'm not an idiot."
"He just chuckled and said Lia was doing the cleaning and there didn't need to be two people cleaning."
"His nonchalance really ticked me off, so I told him he and his sticky kids had an hour to pack up their things and leave before I called the cops."
"Al looked at Ky and Ky was like, 'What are you looking at ME for? Go pack!'"
"At this point, Lia was really upset with me."
"She said they were looking forward to unwinding and I walked in and ruined it in 5 minutes, not even considering other resolutions to the conflict."
"Plus I had no claim to the house since I didn't buy it myself."
"I told her there is no conflict–Al is deadweight and that's that."
"And as for the house, Ky 'owns' it and he was with me."
"She said if Al was leaving, she was leaving too."
"That night, I got a call from my mom asking why I kicked Lia out."
"I told her I kicked AL out and Lia followed."
"My mom told me I need to be more accepting of new members of the family and that not everyone has the same living style as me."
"Now she's mad, and Lia won't talk to me."
The OP was left to wonder:
"Was I TA in this situation?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"Feels like your mom doesn't have the full picture of Al that you do."
"Obviously, Al is an a**hole."
"You aren't. NTA."
"My unsolicited advice is that in future interactions continue to call out Al's behavior as unacceptable."
"Only act through the defense of your sister."
"Don't call out her bad choice of Al at all, don't do a 'Why are you doing X for him?'"
"Just call out Al's laziness."
"'Get me a beer" garners a 'What are your legs and arms broken?'"
"Not cleaning? 'Pick up after your kids' - 'Wash your dirty dishes, jerk.'"
"Just continue to point out that Al is a lazy a**hole who thinks he needs to be treated like he's the master of the house." ~ SoImaRedditUserNow
"I agree with this."
"Calling out and focusing on Al's bad behavior in public is what I suggest you do."
"Emphasize that Al is treating your sister like a maid and that is not what a good partner would do."
"You respect your sister's choices but you will never support bad behavior."
"OP you are NTA." ~ jschul252
"Honestly, I would still point out the sister when she's doing wrong."
"Not what Al does wrong."
"But when she gets defensive."
"They want to unwind 'Is the kids using the walls as paper unwinding? You know why we are disappointed.'"
"Because she's defending them trashing the vacation home."
"That still needs to be pointed out."
"They aren't being kicked out for Al being rude alone."
"And for the mom, I would 'Oh great. You will drop by to re-paint the walls? Wash floors? Well, that's lovely to hear, Mother. Maybe they can do that at your place. But not here.'" ~ Dangerous-WinterElf
"Also, don't forget that Lia is now acting like that too - saying her sister doesn't have the right to kick her out as she didn't buy the house? Um."
"That's not how it works."
"Ownership by marriage is legally valid so sis had every right to kick her entitled sister out of HER vacation home."
"Her hubby also was 1000% awesome to back it up since Al looked to him to validate."
"Sis left because she knew her man was wrong and she doubled down to protect him but this is just the beginning."
"He sounds like trash and I hope she sees it before worse happens." ~ sjyffl
"Agreed, but it would be better if it came from OP's husband going forward."
"The other men in the family need to point out to Al that his lazy a** and chauvinist attitude is not acceptable to the family."
"Lay out some rules upfront, when they visit your home, Al is expected to do his part in watching his kids and keeping the house clean."
"Remind your mom, that you expect all guests to your home to clean up after themselves and not make a mess, otherwise they can go stay at a hotel." ~ jackb6ii
"When someone is letting you use their place, the bare minimum is you're expected to leave it in at least the same state you found it."
"He let his kids draw on the walls, and he couldn't be bothered to at least do the dishes."
"Lia should be asking herself if she sees a future with this man."
"If they have kids, she won't be getting any help from him."
"His idea of a relationship is one where he sits on his ass with a beer while she does all the domestic work, including looking after his kids."
"He's not a partner, he's a leech."
"She needs to remind herself she deserves better. NTA." ~ anm313
"NTA. I think most of us have been in relationships like this."
"We can't see the bad stuff when we're drowning in the sewage water."
"I hope your sister sees it before she marries him."
"No one deserves a deadbeat dad/bf/husband who mooches off their girlfriend, etc." ~ gaymerladydragon
"NTA - you were absolutely in the right here."
"AND, your husband backed you up."
"You and your husband are a team and need to be respected as such."
"This new boyfriend sounds like an absolute deadweight who needs to leave everyone alone, including Lia, ASAP." ~ Radiant_Composer_454
"NTA. This is pretty obvious, and I don't understand why you're even asking about it."
"Al is a f**king slob."
"Lia is enabling his slovenliness, and his children are going to grow up with very distorted ideas of civilized, polite behavior, especially in someone else's house."
"She was looking forward to unwinding?"
"Well, maybe you and your husband were also, but couldn't because you had to clean up their freaking mess."
"As for what the rest of the family thinks, tell them to mind their own business." ~ Cranky70something
"NTA. You took out the trash."
"Tell your mom if she wants to watch your sister being abused, she can buy them a vacation house." ~ PrettiestFrog
"NTA. The disrespect of your home is enough to get them kicked out."
"Take pictures and show mom."
"I'm not usually this kind of person, but if the crayon marks won't clean up, tell Lia she can't come back until he pays for it." ~ Lurker-78
"NTA. I agree with the comment about taking pictures of the mess to send your mom."
"I also wonder what version of the story she heard from your sister."
"I'm thinking send the pics in a family group chat along with a message saying that anyone who can't respect your property is not invited to the vacation home." ~ FarmerBaker_3
"NTA. Keep that filthy man away from all your properties."
"What's more keep calling him out on everything, keep driving in the point that he's a lazy slob that cares only about himself, and hope that one day (and hopefully sooner than later) your sister will lose her rose-colored glasses and see him for what he really is." ~ Dmpoaod_v2
"Lia can accept whatever disgusting behavior she wants from her guy but expecting others to put up with it, especially when you gave them a place to stay, is ridiculous."
"Your mom needs to stay out of it, you aren't kids fighting over a toy."
"Your sister appears to be extremely forgiving of Al when most people would've kicked him to the curb ages ago."
"She has zero self-esteem if she puts up with him but that's not your problem."
"NTA for kicking him out" ~ TaylorMade2566
"NTA. You kicked out your sister's boyfriend, not your sister." ~ xXven0mous24Xx
Well, OP, the Reddit crew is loud and clear with their thoughts.
YOUR house, YOUR rules.
It's sad that your sister is allowing herself to be treated this way.
After everything calms down, hopefully, you and Lia and your Mom can have a serious chat about her relationship.
You and Ky make a great team.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp