Content Warning: Infertility, Birth Plan, Surrogacy, Water Birth
Having a child is an incredibly important and precious idea to those who want to grow a family, so when a person discovers they may not be able to naturally have children, that can be a lot to process.
But struggling with the realities of infertility is not a good reason to mistreat someone who's able to have children, pointed out the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor constellationlist had four children of her own, and when her brother-in-law and his wife came to her, asking for help after years of infertility issues, she decided to help.
But when they controlled her entire pregnancy and then attempted to force her to go with a birth plan she was not comfortable with, the Original Poster (OP) was at a loss for what to do.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for telling my brother-in-law and his wife that I don't want to follow their birth plan?"
The OP decided to be a surrogate for her brother-in-law (BIL) and his wife.
"I (34 Female) am a surrogate for my BIL, Simon (39 Male), and his wife, Michelle (38 Female)."
"Simon and Michelle have struggled with infertility for years. They've tried IVF (in vitro fertilization) and even surrogacy before, but the person changed her mind at the last second."
"They have outwardly shown their jealousy of my husband, James (34 Male), and me for having children, especially as only one of them was planned, and our oldest was born when we were sixteen."
"They came to me last year and begged me to be their surrogate. I had doubts, as did my husband, but I felt bad for them and decided to go through with it."
"They are not paying me anything for carrying this child, and now, looking back, I feel really stupid about not discussing everything before we got started."
While the OP was supported at home, she felt terribly controlled by her future parents.
"James supported my decision and has acted sweetly and caringly, as he has with my previous pregnancies."
"Simon and Michelle, on the other hand, are very controlling. They made up meal plans for me, and I'm taking all these supplements as well as attending multiple classes."
"When I told them I knew what to do during pregnancy, they didn't listen and said to me that just because I was pregnant four times doesn't mean I'm an expert."
"I gave up trying to dissuade them as I knew nothing would work."
But the situation became much worse when they began to discuss the birth plan.
"We started going over the birth plan earlier this week, and it caused a huge argument."
"They wanted me to do an unmedicated water birth, and I flat-out refused."
"For my second pregnancy, I didn't have enough time for any pain relief, and the pain was horrific. I have quite a high pain tolerance, but this experience was awful, and I never wanted to do that again (Kudos to anyone who has unmedicated births)."
"As for the water birth, I don't like the idea of being submerged in water with blood, other fluids, and possibly poop."
"They weren't happy about this. They said this was their baby, and they should decide how they were born."
"I retorted and said, this is my body, and I should decide how I want to push out a human that I'm so generously carrying for them."
"A lot of shouting happened, and I started to get overwhelmed very quickly. I started crying, and Michelle rolled her eyes and told me to grow up. James told her to shut up, which started Simon off, and it was just a mess."
The OP's in-laws got involved in the drama.
"James and I left the house, and I was crying the whole way home and regretting ever agreeing to be their surrogate."
"It took James and me a few days to calm down, and during those days, we didn't have any contact with Simon or Michelle."
"Simon and Michelle called James' parents and complained to them about what happened. They called us, and we explained our side of the story."
"They were shocked at what happened and said they were fully on our side and that they'd talk with Simon and Michelle."
The OP wasn't sure what to expect next.
"I'm due in two weeks, and I'm so nervous. A part of me doesn't want them there, but I know they have to be, seeing as it's their child."
"James disagrees. He said that he'll have them kicked out if they do anything to upset or stress me out. Even my oldest (18 Male) agrees with him, and he won't even be in the room."
"I sort of feel like an a**hole, but I don't know. It's a hard time right now."
"I realize now that we should have planned it more thoroughly, but hopefully, nothing else happens, and once this baby gets here, we can put this behind us. And I definitely won't be carrying any more children for them."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some couldn't imagine treating someone, let alone their surrogate, this way.
"NTA. My SIL (sister-in-law) was kind enough to be a surrogate for me, and I wouldn't have dreamed of telling her how to give birth. I'm sorry they're being so ungrateful and rude about the huge sacrifice you're making." - ivyjade42
"Absolutely NTA. They do NOT need to be in the room or part of your birth plan. As soon as the baby is born and you are in recovery, they can come and get their baby. I can't believe they are acting like this."
"You are their surrogate. It's such an incredible gift to them that you could exile them to the dark side of the moon for the birth and still be so far in the credit column that they could hope to repay you in 15 lifetimes. How you could possibly feel like an AH is bizarre."
"Entitled doesn't remotely scratch the surface of what they are." - Boeing367-80
"Her gall, the woman who has never been pregnant telling a mom of FOUR that she's not an 'expert,' well, neither is she. If she were the one giving birth, it would absolutely be her right to develop the birth plan. But that type of 'home birth' still carries a lot of risks."
"I would send her some information about infant maternity mortality rates and all of the various life-threatening medical complications that can turn an unmedicated (or medicated) vaginal birth into an emergency c-section. An emergency surgery that isn't possible at home, and which would delay care to mother and baby as those present try to get out of the kiddie pool/tub and to the hospital."
"You know your body and what you can endure, and they should be reminded to be grateful because I'm assuming you aren't charging them surrogacy fees."
"I do kind of feel worried for the baby with such arrogant parents. Let's hope they wake up real quick and don't assume that all the books they've read are going just magically to make them know what to do in every moment. It doesn't work like that. Every child is different."
"Good luck. Good vibes. NTA all the way." - eilonwe
"I would never ask a person I didn't trust to be a surrogate anyway. Just by asking, you have shown the person that you trust them enough to take care of themselves while pregnant. If you don't trust a person to do that, don't ask them."
"Except that they obviously don't trust her to follow their impossible standards. I bet my (sizeable) a** that every single thing they deem a problem about their child (colic, terrible twos, left-handedness) will be attributed to something OP did 'wrong' during her labor or pregnancy." - Rainbowclaw27
"The birth of a child is not a spectator event; it is a medical procedure. Everything that happens from pregnancy through birth is up to you, and you alone."
"They asked you to be a surrogate precisely because of your previous successful pregnancies, they should trust you to conduct your pregnancy and birth as you see fit, and if they don't, they should not have asked you."
"Go low contact. Send them a text or something similar once a day to let them know you and baby are fine (or have someone else do it) until after the birth. Then let them know they can come pick up their baby."
"The baby you are carrying is their child. You yourself do not belong to them, and your decisions are your own."
"NTA." - SummitJunkie7
Others agreed and reassured the OP needed to design a birth plan that worked for her.
"NTA."
"They're like, 'We want you to have an unmedicated birth, we know the pain will be hideous for you but that's a sacrifice we're willing to make.'"
"Yeah, no, they don't get to make those decisions." - greyhounds4life1969
"OP, don't tell them when you are in the hospital. They are abusive. F**k them. You better get things straight with your husband and have a good friend guard your door." - LOVING-CAT13
"With how they act, I'm truly not surprised that the other person doing the surrogacy for them backed out."
"OP, don't feel bad. They didn't feel bad when they decided you should suffer during childbirth to make their wishes true. Do what you know and are comfortable doing."
"You are providing them a huge and generous gift, and they need to be willing to work with you. If they aren't, then don't feel bad about not working with them." - New-Objective-9962
"They are treating this birth like a spectator sport where they intend to continue putting OP's life and health at risk."
"What if something happens and a call needs to be made between mother and child? I would not feel safe with them there." - GraceOfTheNorth
Some also warned the OP about legally protecting herself and the baby.
"NTA. Guess what? THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BE THERE."
"In fact, at this point, I'd say it's guaranteed that they won't be. If I were your husband, I would not let them anywhere near you while you're in labor. They f**ked that up for themselves. Big time."
"You are the pregnant person. It's your body. They don't have any right to be telling you what to eat, what vitamins to take, or how you will give birth."
"They can suggest. They can ask. But the second they get pushy and in your f**king face is the time to go no contact until the baby is born and if they don't like it, too bad, they can just shut the f**k up, AND BE GRATEFUL. I'm just furious for you. I'm sorry."
"Have your husband be the point of contact for these last two weeks. And if they won't stop, I wouldn't even tell them you're in labor until the baby is almost ready to be born."
"Tell them it happened too fast because your body knows what it's doing. And you barely had time to get to the hospital. Oops, there it is. This is a f**king nightmare in the delivery room waiting to happen." - SummerStar62
"Definitely have your husband be the point of contact, OP. I'm sure you're already well aware of how annoying people are the final two weeks, but if your in-laws have all of these opinions on how birth should go, use it to your advantage."
"The birthing person/surrogate/aunt needs to be calm, and non-stressed so you are going 'offline' until it is time." - cakeresurfacer
"OP and her partner should speak with the nurses right up front and warn them/express their wishes. If they want to be in the room physically and it is okay with OP, then they need to do so with their lips zipped."
"No wonder the last surrogate backed out. If they pulled half this crap with them as they are with OP, no sane person would give them a helpless infant to take care of."
"They DO NOT get to dictate OP's needs during a major medical event. Period. Full stop. Whatever OP needs/wants, and if supported by their medical team, OP gets. Period."
"They both need some serious therapy. Their infertility issues have caused them to lose all common sense and decency. Not to mention the absolute gall to tell OP they know nothing about pregnancy/childbirth... sorry, but the person who has children absolutely does know about pregnancy and childbirth. They are absolute lunatics and I feel sorry for that kid." - Scorp128
"I think you just discovered why their last potential surrogate canceled on them at the last minute."
"Make a written note to the nurses to take to the hospital when you're admitted, outlining who you will allow into the labor and delivery unit with you... and who you won't. Written out like that means they don't have to remember it while they're busy, and they have all of the names on that piece of paper so they can easily transcribe it into their paperwork. They just have to enforce it when these narcissistic AHs show up."
"Once the child is born and you're ready, hand the baby over to their new parents. Do whatever the hospital requires in the event of surrogacy (which makes me wonder if they should have already gotten and signed the adoption papers for you to sign)... and then let them know that they now have to deal with EVERYTHING from that point on for the baby."
"I say that because I can already see them showing up at your house without a warning and at inopportune times, like 6:00 AM on a Saturday, looking for a babysitter or expecting you to continue (unpaid) to provide skin-to-skin contact or breastfeeding after you've signed the adoption paperwork. Otherwise, they'd probably try to pull, 'But you gave birth to this baby, and you have four other kids, too. You probably won't even know he/she is here with all of the other noise at your house' and similar crap like that.
"Then I'd avoid them until/unless they both pull their cumulative heads out of their a**es and apologize for trying to make you do everything according to their plans. They obviously never asked you about your previous pregnancies and deliveries. And if you ever hear from them again to have a discussion about this, I've got to ask: Who's paying your hospital and doctors' bills, them or you?"
"And note, if they come in throwing their weight around while you're in labor, the nurses will back you up because you're the one doing all the work that day, even if they are paying the entire bill."
"I would also remind them that you saved them $50,000+ plus over an unknown surrogate."
"Anyway, good luck! Because this sounds like some true bulls**t is on the way already! You're a human being, not a mailbox for your stork to use, so you have a right to stand up for yourself!" - AdventurousReward663
Not only was the subReddit certain that the future parents had some unresolved feelings about their infertility to process, but they also were concerned that their controlling nature would only cause problems for the OP in the coming weeks around her birth, and for the child in years after.
It can be hard to let go of control and admit that someone might know more about a sensitive subject than you do, but it was obvious to everyone but the brother-in-law and his wife that that was exactly what the couple needed to do.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp