A parent never wants to learn their child got in trouble at school.
Of course, what's vitally important is to hear the whole story.
In some cases, the punishment might prove unfair, as the child may have been at the wrong place at the wrong time, and got caught up in a mess without intending to.
Other times, however, it's clear that the child is worthy of the punishment bestowed upon them, and the parents must accept it.
No matter the damage it might do to the child's report card or permanent record.
Redditor NotFixingSonsGrade caught his teenage son breaking a major school rule.
As he expected, the original poster (OP)'s son's transgression did not escape his teacher, and serious consequences were implemented.
While the OP's son begged him to challenge this punishment, he flatly refused.
After being scolded by his son's mother for not standing up for their child, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where he asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA For allowing my son to fail a major assignment and telling him he deserved the zero?"
The OP explained why he refused to challenge his son's punishment at school and why his son's mother was furious that he didn't:
"My son 'Devin' plagiarized an essay for English by copy-pasting most of the sentences from Cliffnotes and replacing one of the letters with a specific Russian letter that looked the same as the original English letter."
"It wasn't as if Devin plagiarized without meaning to."
"My son knew exactly what he was doing."
"Devin's essay did bypass the plagiarism software, but his teacher immediately recognized that it was from Cliffnotes and informed me that Devin would be receiving a zero, which is how I became aware of the situation."
"Devin's grade dropped to a D."
"Devin asked me to fight with the school to get his grade fixed essentially."
"I told him no and that he deserved the zero."
"If you're struggling with an essay, you reach out and ask for help."
"You don't try to cheat your way out."
"He knew better than that."
"Devin's mom 'Emma' called me because she just received the physical report card in the mail and saw the D in English."
"Devin hadn't told his mom about what happened, and it's too late to challenge the zero now since grades have already been finalized."
"Emma tried to interrogate me on why I didn't challenge the zero when it was possible."
"I told Emma that I wanted this lesson to stick with Devin."
"Devin will graduate high school in two years."
"Getting a D in high school is better than getting kicked out of university or fired from a job for trying to pass off someone else's work as his own."
"Emma argued that a D will seriously hurt Devin's university prospects."
"She said she doesn't condone what Devin did and would have been in agreement with a home punishment such as grounding Devin."
"But that I was a terrible parent for making our son experience a punishment that she says can seriously impact his future."
"Unless Devin were applying to an Ivy League (which he has not had any interest in) then I doubt one D will destroy his university prospects."
"I'm struggling to understand Emma's perspective and need more opinions."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
The Reddit community was all but unanimous in agreeing that the OP was not the a**hole for refusing to challenge his Devin's zero grade.
A select few felt that the OP was at fault merely for not being transparent with Devin's mother about the grade and his plagiarism.
"YTA."
"I don't disagree with your decision being appropriate, but this was a major incident with your son's education and Emma had a right to know and be part of the decision on how to handle it."
"Everyone is saying Emma's attitude is the problem, but considering your inability to communicate with other adults about things of which they have a right to know, I don't have faith you have great communication skills with your teen."
"If I were her, I would be absolutely furious and might even take you to court over this."
"Not only did you fail to properly supervise our son's education, which resulted in him cheating in the first place and getting a major failing grade, but you hid it from me."
"You violated my trust and my rights as a co-parent."- FoghornFarts
"NTA for letting him face the consequences but YTA for not involving his mom in the decision."
"It sounds like you guys coparent Devin, and while I agree with your point of view, she did deserve to be notified of the issue much sooner."
"Anyway a D for one semester won't kill him as long as he can hit a B or higher next semester and on the final."- Starfly37
Nearly everyone else, however, felt the OP did exactly the right thing by making Devin face the consequences of his actions, agreeing that there was nothing to challenge as Devin knew he was doing something wrong.
"NTA."
"Your son FA&FO, and he probably should have been punished more than just with his grade for plagiarizing."
"That said, and this might sound ruder than I intend, but if he's dumb enough to think it's okay/reasonable/safe to turn in Cliff's Notes as his own work, then you should have stopped him (because he's just not got the brains to know better)."
"However, he's at an age that he should certainly know better, and it seems you did the right thing by allowing NATURAL CONSEQUENCES."- justagirlinTexas09
"NTA."
"By all means, challenge a teacher if there is unfairness."
"But this was not unfair."
"And a good lesson."
"Devon experiencing the consequences of his own actions is a good learning moment."
"Stand your ground."- ExistingStruggle6885
"NTA."
"Sounds like you are the only one actually parenting."- Old_Cheek1076
"Definitely NTA!"
"Letting your kid get away with, let alone actively defending clearly poor choices sends a terrible message."
"A high schooler who wants to go to college and is copy-pasting from Cliff Notes to write an essay absolutely and literally needs to learn a lesson — that's lazy AND foolish!"
"It's moot, because based on your description, there was no way you could have successfully challenged that grade."
"You couldn't even have argued that the plagiarism was accidental/unintentional because he deliberately changed the letters to avoid detection!"- Zealousideal-Earth50
"NTA."
"Allowing your children to learn from their mistakes is the hallmark of a good parent."- Ogodnotagain
"NTA."
"He has time."
"If anything showing improvement as he ages will also look good and he can use that in his favor."
"Proper lesson is being taught here."- akshetty2994
"NTA!"
"In a society where it seems like parents are so afraid to let kids fail or experience consequences, you decided to let your son experience the results of his choices."
"GOOD FOR YOU!"
"It's unfortunate that your son's mother would prefer to the parent that can sweet talk or demand their child be given special privileges, but you're right- the real world doesn't work like that."
"I can understand why son's mom wants him to have the best chances to achieve whatever opportunity he decides to go for, but hopefully she can see this is a lesson of value, too."
"Good luck!"- LostBody3801
"NTA."
"You made the right call."
"However what I would do is go to war over the 'plagiarism checker' and see what metrics they look for, if it's an 'AI writing detector' those are flawed."- uwu_cumblaster_69
"Community college doesn't care about D's."
"Sounds like he's learning a valuable lesson."
"NTA."- Cultural_Yam7212
"NTA your wife is the worst kind of parent."
"'Oh my poor dear cheated, but it can't possibly be his fault. Quick argue with the school to get it changed'."
"FAFO in play right here."- PoliteCanadian2
"Good lesson to learn before university."
"A lot of universities have strict plagiarism policies."- mllebitterness
"NTA."
"And as an English teacher: THANK YOU."
"You let him suffer the natural consequences of his actions, at an age when they are indeed likely to do him more good than harm."
"My late father wasn't a plagiarist, but he was an inconsistent student who didn't get his academic act together until 21-22."
"He ended up with a PhD and being an international expert in his field."
"And he got all his degrees from UGA rather than the Ivy League."
"It's shortsighted to think a perfect high school transcript is more important to a kid's future than developing good academic habits, much less basic integrity."- Interesting-Fish6065
It's a fair argument to say that maybe the OP should have stopped Devin earlier when he caught him plagiarizing his paper.
However, some lessons must be learned through self-discovery, and since Devin was well aware what he was doing was wrong, it's likely the OP's warning would have been on deaf ears.
Then, too, Devin should be well aware that a D in English is one of the least severe punishments he can get for plagiarizing.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp