Having the birds and the bees conversation with children is an uncomfortable rite of passage for any parent.
But what if you're asked by someone who isn't your child—and they want to know specifically about how gay sex works?
Is it out of line to refuse to provide that uncomfortable education?
Redditor the_goblinking1 and his fiancé recently found themselves in that very situation with his 11-year-old niece, so he turned to the subReddit "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) to see if he was in the wrong, asking:
"AITA for refusing to tell my eleven year old niece how gay sex works?"
The original poster (OP) explained how the conversation came about.
"Okay, the title is wild- I apologies for any braincells lost reading this."
"People:"
"Me - 24M(ale)"
"My fiancé - 25M"
"My Niece - 11F(emale)"
"My SIL (sister-in-law) - 34F"
"My Brother - 38M"
"My Dad - 60M"
"My dad's birthday was yesterday so we agreed that since (pandemic) laws in the country allow it we would come together and celebrate because he had been was alone for the majority of (the pandemic).
"My niece has always known I was gay, and she knows how heterosexual sex works because she has had sex ed in school (crappy year six sex-ed but still she has basic knowledge.)"
"She's friendly with my fiancé and he's friendly to her but they have the obvious boundaries that you should have with someone who is going to be your uncle."
"Me and fiancé were eating on the other side of the garden because of a playfight we had with dad and then my niece came over and asked how two men have kids."
"I told her that we'd just adopt a baby, but that she would definitely get cousins to play with (because I thought the problem was that she thought she'd get no cousins)."
The OP's answer wasn't satisfactory to his niece, however. She wanted specifics.
"Then she started pushing that if neither of us was a girl then how do we 'love' each other, and my fiancé said that two men 'do it differently' but that we still love each other."
"More pushing, until she literally said to my fiancé, 'where do you put your willy?'"
"We both started laughing and saying that when she got older she would find out, and that she didn't need to know right now."
That reaction, however, caused an immediate backlash from both the OP's niece and SIL.
"She started to cry and said we were making fun of her, and I tried telling her that it was just a bit uncomfortable for us to tell her about something (sex) that she had only just been given details about."
"When my SIL heard my niece crying she came over and was less than pleasant about how 'we made her cry' we told her what niece had asked about and she said that we should 'have told her because she's old enough'."
"We then told her that we didn't feel comfortable doing that and that if niece was really itching to know how two men have sex then she and my brother should tell her."
The OP's dad only added fuel to the fire with his reaction.
"Then my dad and brother heard the commotion and came over, when my dad realized what was happening he started laughing really hard which just made my niece cry more. It got so bad that my brother, SIL and niece left."
"I feel like absolute sh*t."
"AITA??"
Redditors weighed in on the situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
They didn't blame the OP for not wanting to provide that particular education to his niece.
"NTA. If your SIL thought your niece had a 'right' to know, SHE should be one explaining it!"
"Also, an 11-year-old should know better than to ask a question in that manner. I mean, that phrasing...wow."
"SIL and your bro need to be parents and explain boundaries as well. No one OWES your niece, and it sounds like she freaks out when she doesn't get her way."—SolitaryTeaParty
"NTA - this was a good learning moment for her about boundaries in polite conversation. Or could've been, if your SIL didn't push it."
"Even if your niece technically knows how humans procreate, there's a lot of nuance she would need for this conversation - maybe chiefly understanding sex for pleasure's sake differs from procreation."
"Weird that your SIL wanted you to explain to her niece what makes you hot. I think proposing she explain it was a wonderful suggestion."—banjoman63
"😂"
"Poor kid!"
"No, NTA, but probably could have been handled without everyone laughing at her."
"There's LGBTQI books for younger teens that as far as I know explain it in the same way that heterosexual sex is explained. Might be worth considering."
"If a kid's old enough to ask the question, they're usually old enough for some sort of age-appropriate explanation."
"But I entirely appreciate that a couple don't want to be explaining the ins and outs (ahem) to an 11-yr-old of the other sex."—InfamousBanana4391
"I would never tell someone else's child how sex works, gay or not. It's not my job and it's too personal. NTA."—mariam67
But they were a bit more forgiving of the niece's behavior given her age.
"Per the post she started crying because she thought they were laughing at her. That sort of sensitivity is not exactly abnormal for children, especially ones around that age (i.e. nearing/at puberty & all the hormonal changes that come with)."
"Her crying is one of the less objectionable things in the post imho (in my humble opinion), easily topped by niece being old enough to not ask those sorts of things so bluntly and by SIL getting upset with OP rather than taking her daughter aside."—Star-Lord-
"Agreed, that's completely normal in my experience as a previous 11-year-old girl"—heytherekitkat
"Idk about the niece being entitled or anything -- thinking back to when I was 10 - 13 I was an embarrassed crier."
"ESPECIALLY if people were laughing at something I said but weren't laughing at me but I was too young to understand what I said was funny so I took it as they were laughing at me."
"It sounds like a normal part of going through puberty as a girl honestly, especially when you're embarrassed for a reason that *no one will tell you*."—sarahdiddle
"The only reason why at 11 they are being taught reproductive health is due to the fact that some girls get their periods at this age and they should be prepared."
"Some kids at 11 aren't going to grasp the concept of sex for pleasure and love. In fact the niece asking how you'd make babies makes me think that she's not quite there yet."—kawaeri
One Redditor offered suggestions of some sexuality books that the OP could suggest for his niece.
"I got my daughter a book series on bodies and what happens as you age. It covers consent, periods, masturbation, hygiene, sexuality (and its fluidity), and safe sex (very broadly)."
"The next book of the series (when she hits like 13/14) will go more into topics like contraceptive types and how they work, safe sex, coercion, being safe on social media and with technology (nudes/revenge porn), and a bunch of stuff on handling bad dates/being uncomfortable with a partner and trusting your gut."
"She reads the books and highlights anything she has questions about, then I'll look at what she's not sure of and take a beat to figure out the best way to frame/discuss the topic in an age appropriate way.. that way I don't end up saying something stupid/embarrassing her. Which isn't always easy."
"Now that I think about it, I need to find one about drugs and alcohol too..."
"Edit: because some people asked I want to include the titles we've had the most success with!"
"'Celebrate Your Body 1 and 2' by Drs Carrie Leff and Lisa Klein"
"And 'American Girl's The Care & Keeping of You 1 & 2'"
"'Celebrate Your Body #2' is the one that I've loved the most - it touches on consent, hygiene - not needing soap inside your vagina is a big one - and sexual identity."
"But I'd recommend getting both series because they compliment each other well and cover things in greater depth that the other series may have glossed over!"
"We got the first books when our daughter was about 8/9 and we noticed she was starting puberty and just kept discussing the topics regularly until she was comfortable and understood enough about it to be ready for the next set."—passivelyrepressed
Even if the OP is uncomfortable suggesting these materials to his brother and SIL, hopefully they can figure something out on their own before their niece decides to get her education from a decidedly less informational resource.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp