Having the birds and the bees conversation with children is an uncomfortable rite of passage for any parent.
But what if you're asked by someone who isn't your child—and they want to know specifically about how gay sex works?
Is it out of line to refuse to provide that uncomfortable education?
Redditor the_goblinking1 and his fiancé recently found themselves in that very situation with his 11-year-old niece, so he turned to the subReddit "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) to see if he was in the wrong, asking:
"AITA for refusing to tell my eleven year old niece how gay sex works?"
The original poster (OP) explained how the conversation came about.
"Okay, the title is wild- I apologies for any braincells lost reading this."
"People:"
"Me - 24M(ale)"
"My fiancé - 25M"
"My Niece - 11F(emale)"
"My SIL (sister-in-law) - 34F"
"My Brother - 38M"
"My Dad - 60M"
"My dad's birthday was yesterday so we agreed that since (pandemic) laws in the country allow it we would come together and celebrate because he had been was alone for the majority of (the pandemic).
"My niece has always known I was gay, and she knows how heterosexual sex works because she has had sex ed in school (crappy year six sex-ed but still she has basic knowledge.)"
"She's friendly with my fiancé and he's friendly to her but they have the obvious boundaries that you should have with someone who is going to be your uncle."
"Me and fiancé were eating on the other side of the garden because of a playfight we had with dad and then my niece came over and asked how two men have kids."
"I told her that we'd just adopt a baby, but that she would definitely get cousins to play with (because I thought the problem was that she thought she'd get no cousins)."
The OP's answer wasn't satisfactory to his niece, however. She wanted specifics.
"Then she started pushing that if neither of us was a girl then how do we 'love' each other, and my fiancé said that two men 'do it differently' but that we still love each other."
"More pushing, until she literally said to my fiancé, 'where do you put your willy?'"
"We both started laughing and saying that when she got older she would find out, and that she didn't need to know right now."
That reaction, however, caused an immediate backlash from both the OP's niece and SIL.
"She started to cry and said we were making fun of her, and I tried telling her that it was just a bit uncomfortable for us to tell her about something (sex) that she had only just been given details about."
"When my SIL heard my niece crying she came over and was less than pleasant about how 'we made her cry' we told her what niece had asked about and she said that we should 'have told her because she's old enough'."
"We then told her that we didn't feel comfortable doing that and that if niece was really itching to know how two men have sex then she and my brother should tell her."
The OP's dad only added fuel to the fire with his reaction.
"Then my dad and brother heard the commotion and came over, when my dad realized what was happening he started laughing really hard which just made my niece cry more. It got so bad that my brother, SIL and niece left."
"I feel like absolute sh*t."
"AITA??"
Redditors weighed in on the situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
They didn't blame the OP for not wanting to provide that particular education to his niece.
"NTA. If your SIL thought your niece had a 'right' to know, SHE should be one explaining it!"
"Also, an 11-year-old should know better than to ask a question in that manner. I mean, that phrasing...wow."
"SIL and your bro need to be parents and explain boundaries as well. No one OWES your niece, and it sounds like she freaks out when she doesn't get her way."—SolitaryTeaParty
"NTA - this was a good learning moment for her about boundaries in polite conversation. Or could've been, if your SIL didn't push it."
"Even if your niece technically knows how humans procreate, there's a lot of nuance she would need for this conversation - maybe chiefly understanding sex for pleasure's sake differs from procreation."
"Weird that your SIL wanted you to explain to her niece what makes you hot. I think proposing she explain it was a wonderful suggestion."—banjoman63
"😂"
"Poor kid!"
"No, NTA, but probably could have been handled without everyone laughing at her."
"There's LGBTQI books for younger teens that as far as I know explain it in the same way that heterosexual sex is explained. Might be worth considering."
"If a kid's old enough to ask the question, they're usually old enough for some sort of age-appropriate explanation."
"But I entirely appreciate that a couple don't want to be explaining the ins and outs (ahem) to an 11-yr-old of the other sex."—InfamousBanana4391
"I would never tell someone else's child how sex works, gay or not. It's not my job and it's too personal. NTA."—mariam67
But they were a bit more forgiving of the niece's behavior given her age.
"Per the post she started crying because she thought they were laughing at her. That sort of sensitivity is not exactly abnormal for children, especially ones around that age (i.e. nearing/at puberty & all the hormonal changes that come with)."
"Her crying is one of the less objectionable things in the post imho (in my humble opinion), easily topped by niece being old enough to not ask those sorts of things so bluntly and by SIL getting upset with OP rather than taking her daughter aside."—Star-Lord-
"Agreed, that's completely normal in my experience as a previous 11-year-old girl"—heytherekitkat
"Idk about the niece being entitled or anything -- thinking back to when I was 10 - 13 I was an embarrassed crier."
"ESPECIALLY if people were laughing at something I said but weren't laughing at me but I was too young to understand what I said was funny so I took it as they were laughing at me."
"It sounds like a normal part of going through puberty as a girl honestly, especially when you're embarrassed for a reason that *no one will tell you*."—sarahdiddle
"The only reason why at 11 they are being taught reproductive health is due to the fact that some girls get their periods at this age and they should be prepared."
"Some kids at 11 aren't going to grasp the concept of sex for pleasure and love. In fact the niece asking how you'd make babies makes me think that she's not quite there yet."—kawaeri
One Redditor offered suggestions of some sexuality books that the OP could suggest for his niece.
"I got my daughter a book series on bodies and what happens as you age. It covers consent, periods, masturbation, hygiene, sexuality (and its fluidity), and safe sex (very broadly)."
"The next book of the series (when she hits like 13/14) will go more into topics like contraceptive types and how they work, safe sex, coercion, being safe on social media and with technology (nudes/revenge porn), and a bunch of stuff on handling bad dates/being uncomfortable with a partner and trusting your gut."
"She reads the books and highlights anything she has questions about, then I'll look at what she's not sure of and take a beat to figure out the best way to frame/discuss the topic in an age appropriate way.. that way I don't end up saying something stupid/embarrassing her. Which isn't always easy."
"Now that I think about it, I need to find one about drugs and alcohol too..."
"Edit: because some people asked I want to include the titles we've had the most success with!"
"'Celebrate Your Body 1 and 2' by Drs Carrie Leff and Lisa Klein"
"And 'American Girl's The Care & Keeping of You 1 & 2'"
"'Celebrate Your Body #2' is the one that I've loved the most - it touches on consent, hygiene - not needing soap inside your vagina is a big one - and sexual identity."
"But I'd recommend getting both series because they compliment each other well and cover things in greater depth that the other series may have glossed over!"
"We got the first books when our daughter was about 8/9 and we noticed she was starting puberty and just kept discussing the topics regularly until she was comfortable and understood enough about it to be ready for the next set."—passivelyrepressed
Even if the OP is uncomfortable suggesting these materials to his brother and SIL, hopefully they can figure something out on their own before their niece decides to get her education from a decidedly less informational resource.
New Mom Irate After Father-In-Law Ruins Her Birthday With 'Vulgar' Comment About Her Breasts
There's nothing quite like the feeling of going through all the work to prepare a fun celebration, just for someone to undo it with an unkind or gross comment.
That feeling just gets worse when it's your birthday, and that comment was made by someone who's supposed to care about you, sympathized the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor Rude-Pepper-2389 had recently given birth and decided to have a special birthday celebration to reconnect with her loved ones after becoming a mom.
When her father-in-law stopped by unexpectedly and then made comments about her body, the Original Poster (OP) was left so uncomfortable that it ruined the whole celebration for her.
She asked the sub:
The OP wanted to have a special birthday celebration after her baby was born.
"I currently have a five-month-old and haven’t really been taking care of myself or dressing up since having the baby."
"It’s my (25 Female) birthday, and we were having friends over at our house for a private dinner to celebrate."
"My husband (24 Male) and I have been together since we were 18."
"I decided to put on this new silk shirt I got, which, admittedly, was low-cut, but I felt cute in it and felt comfortable around the friends we were having over."
Everything was fine until the OP's father-in-law (FIL) stopped by unexpectedly.
"My husband's dad decided to stop by on his way home from work."
"I will say, he was likely drunk. He works two hours away and proudly told my husband he's down to only four beers on his drive home each day... so, that's healthy."
"When he came in, I was on the couch with my baby propped up beside me, bottle feeding him. Keep in mind, I am not breastfeeding, so no, my breasts are not any larger right now."
"My husband's dad leaned down to look at the baby and then suddenly shouted, 'D**n, son, she could knock you out with those things in bed! Like cracking two coconuts together.'"
"This was fully and undoubtedly in reference to my breasts."
The OP was shocked by the comment and very uncomfortable.
"It made me deeply uncomfortable and embarrassed."
"I was so stunned, I couldn’t even process what he said to me, and our friends just stared at me, blinking."
"He’s a redneck, so he's said some pretty vulgar stuff over the years, but this just seems to take the cake, as it was the first time it was directed at me."
"When he stepped out, I told my husband he needed to speak to him, and that the comment wasn’t okay."
"I went to change clothes and decided to never ever wear that shirt again."
"When I brought it up to my husband, he said he didn't hear the comment at first, but then he laughed when I told him what he said. He's always laughed when he feels awkward and has always had a hard time standing up to his parents in any capacity."
"When he and my father-in-law spoke, my FIL just said, 'I shouldn’t have said that to her, I know how she can be,' which just feels even more like I’m just being dramatic."
"Since then, I think my husband just wants me to drop it and move on, truthfully."
The OP wasn't sure what to do after what happened.
"This genuinely ruined my entire night. Am I just too sensitive, or was this an inappropriate thing to say?"
"There's also been no apology since then. This happened on Thursday, and then my father-in-law came by again on Friday with flowers to wish me a happy Mother's Day before Mother's Day Sunday."
"I think that was his way of trying to just breeze past the awkwardness. He's never gotten me a gift the whole seven years I've known him, so the flowers were odd. But I still feel really uncomfortable."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that her father-in-law's comments were rude and just plain creepy.
"NOR at all. That was really rude of him. Anyone would be offended." - Bookbringer
"NOR. That’s firmly in the category of what should be an 'inside thought,' and we should learn what those are at a much younger age than this guy is."
"F**king h**l, this is an absolutely mental thing to say out loud, let alone to your daughter-in-law." - Electronic-Fennel828
"FIL is an AH. I love that you think his being a redneck excuses it, but d**n. Even rednecks should know better than to speak that way to their son's wife."
"What does your husband have to say? Does he understand how breath-takingly rude his father was, or is he Team 'That's Just How He Is'?"
"I'd go very low contact with the old perv. NOR, he put you in an uncomfortable position with his crude remark. Is he married? I'd tell the MIL. I'd tell the whole family. Yes, it's embarrassing, but he is the one who should be embarrassed. Don't accept his non-apology." - Top-Bit85
"Maybe I’m desensitized after having large breasts since I was 13 (I’m 28 now), but I let out a little snort based on how immature of a joke it was. I’d simply tell FIL, 'Yes, I know, my boobs are big,' and move on."
"That said, I would never make such a comment about another person's body. Just because I'm technically fine with it doesn't mean I assume anyone else is!"
"Not everyone is the same, and if OP felt uncomfortable, she’s NOR. Her body, her boundaries." - Both_Original2094
"I’m sorry. That’s upsetting. My father is like this with his father. Even if it’s very offensive comments, he’s uncomfortable and has problems confronting him. It sounds like your husband isn’t going to have a talk with him, which is hurtful."
"I would explain to your husband how uncomfortable the situation was for you and that it’s a serious matter, especially if it happens again. And if he still tries to brush it off, then I would tell him you no longer want your FIL coming to your home."
"It’s your life, too, and he’s not the one being hurt here, you are." - w_coastultraviolence
Others were specifically angry about the tactics the father-in-law used to try to get out of trouble.
"Seriously? Saying 'I know how she can be' is a classic way to blame the victim for having boundaries. It’s your birthday, not a Hooters convention. What a creep. If he can’t look at the baby without checking out your breast, he shouldn't be invited to the house." - Specific_Parsnip3264
"'I know how she can be' is so f**ked up. He's the one being a disgusting person. You need to shine up your husband's spine to properly call him out at the time next time, because there will be a next time." - dancepantz
"The bit that pisses me off the most is, 'I know how she can be,' which is his way of making it her problem that she doesn't like her FiL sexualising her in front of her friends." - Outside-Partait-8935
"The 'joke' comment is gross, but that follow-up comment is infuriating. NOR, OP. But this guy will be in your life for a while, so firmly & calmly shutting this stuff down is completely appropriate."
"I'd wear the d**n shirt again to the next family function and look him right in the eyes next time!" - RationalFish
"When we let things like this slide for others, it's not long before it ends up on our doorstep, and of course, nobody says anything because keeping the peace is the norm. It doesn't have to be getting into their face and yelling abuse back. Just a comment such as, 'Well, that's super tacky to say,' or asking them why they'd say that." - Kattnapped
"The OP said, 'He's said some pretty vulgar stuff over the years... but this is the first time it was directed to me.'"
"Normalise calling stuff out when they are talking about others, and they won't feel so comfortable saying it to you."
"It's a gross thing for him to say, but I guess him buying you flowers is his way of saying sorry."
"Sounds like you are in the situation of a lot of new mothers, where you suddenly realise this stuff matters because you want better influences for your child, and better support for yourself. NOR." - Jumpy-Jello-
Now, about that shirt...
"Please re-think your decision to never wear the cute shirt again, girl!! It's something that you liked very much because it made you feel good about yourself. Don't let some backwoods id**t ruin that for you."
"Wear that shirt till it's worn out and can't be worn anymore!! You should be able to feel good about yourself in whatever you like to wear."
"Your husband should have immediately checked his father, not waited until he was told to do so after his father left the room. In front of everyone there, your husband should have told his father not to ever speak about you or to you in that kind of manner, and if his father doesn't like it, he knows where the door is."
"Hubby should have called him out for his response as well. You did absolutely nothing wrong. You were not the problem; his dad was. This comes down to your husband needing to protect his wife, and he didn't do that." - Lynzo141982
"If he is a redneck, like you said, he won't outright apologize, but flowers are his way of saying sorry."
"I hope he won't say anything again, or else you can expect a nicely tended garden for at least a year."
"About your top, I hope you can wear it again. It takes a lot to feel cute, being a new mum."
"If not, get some fabric dye, dye the top a different color, and embroider a flower on it. This makes the top new, different, and every time you wear it, you can use the mantra ... I'm cute, I don't care what anyone says."
"You've got this!!" - No_Kangaroo_6637
Even if the father-in-law was joking and meant no harm, this is one of those situations where he needs to admit that his joke did not land well, he did cause harm, and he needs to apologize. Just because some people enjoy joking in that manner does not mean that everyone will be comfortable with it, and it's important to respect everyone's boundaries and zones of comfort.