A growth mindset, personal development, and learning from our mistakes are popular concepts and goals for a reason.
But some people just don't seem to be able to improve on themselves, cringed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor BadGrandmother had no choice but to care for her granddaughter after her daughter walked away from her parenting responsibilities.
But when her daughter attempted to do the same thing a second time, the Original Poster (OP) decided something needed to change.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for telling my pregnant daughter that my husband and I will have nothing to do with raising her baby in front of the entire family?"
The OP's daughter, Kelly, put her and her husband in an impossible situation.
"I am a fifty-six-year-old mother to thirty-three-year-old Kelly and grandmother to sixteen-year-old Opal."
"Kelly became pregnant with Opal at sixteen. My husband, Eddy, and I have always believed in having the right to choose. However, Kelly insisted that she wanted to keep the baby and not give it up for adoption."
"We helped a lot as Kelly was only seventeen when Opal was born. However, Kelly would rarely help with parenting even when she was available. Even asking her to watch Opal for an hour while we ran errands was an issue."
"It was rare that Kelly wouldn't complain about why she 'had to be there' to look after Opal."
Kelly's behavior only worsened as Opal grew.
"Kelly chose not to attend college after graduation. She had a job with a flexible schedule, yet she rarely made herself available for Opal. Kelly was only home to sleep or get dressed for some party."
"She also relied on us to purchase supplies and book appointments for Opal."
"Eddy and I would have serious talks with Kelly that she needed to step up as a parent. Kelly would only make empty promises and never follow through on them."
"Kelly moved out when Opal was six."
"Kelly comes around maybe once a fortnight and for holidays, but Eddy and I have been the ones to raise Opal."
"Opal is doing extremely well. She has good friends, plays Tennis, participates in volunteer projects, and plans to be a marine biologist after graduation."
Kelly nearly ruined an important event for Opal.
"The school year ended for Opal last week, so we had a nice dinner to celebrate her good grades. Opal will begin her senior year in August and has not graduated high school yet. Opal completed her junior year with straight A's, so we felt she deserved to have a nice dinner celebrating her accomplishments."
"Kelly came, along with several other family members. We were all chatting and enjoying dinner together when Kelly stood up to make an announcement."
"She announced to us that she was pregnant with her boyfriend's child."
"We already were upset because this was supposed to be Opal's special moment and Kelly announcing her pregnancy was completely inappropriate."
"Eddy and I said nothing, and Kelly started to say how she and her boyfriend were 'so busy!' with life right now."
The OP and Eddy set a new boundary right then and there.
"Eddy and I interrupted Kelly and told her we would have nothing to do with raising this new baby and would not be providing anything for it (supplies, childcare, etc.)."
"Kelly flipped out and an argument ensued."
"Kelly called us heartless and claimed we were willing to throw our grandchild away."
"Eddy and I called her selfish for expecting us to raise another child. We are too old to raise a baby."
"Kelly is thirty-three and needs to grow up, give the baby up for adoption, or be a parent and raise it herself."
The family felt conflicted about the argument.
"Kelly left in tears."
"Now the family has broken into 'sides.' The ones agreeing with Kelly say that we adopted Opal and are sending a message that we don't care about our newest grandchild."
"Others are saying we should have taken her aside privately instead of shooting her down in front of everyone and our reaction was cruel."
"Eddy and I feel we had to be blunt with Kelly and not sugarcoat reality."
"Opal likes to show us stories from here sometimes, so I thought it would be a good place to ask for a neutral perspective."
"AITA?"
The OP edited the post to clarify Kelly's request for raising her baby.
"Several people have informed me that the part where Kelly expected us to raise the new baby was unclear, so I apologize for that. I thought it was self-explanatory, but realize none of you actually experienced what happened."
"Kelly talked about how busy she and her boyfriend were with their lives, then began to talk about how 'grateful' she was that we 'would always look after our grandchildren' and how since we had 'gained so much joy from raising Opal, we would be even happier raising this second baby!'"
"After Eddy and I called her out, Kelly confirmed that she had expected us to adopt and raise this second baby as well.
"Kelly said how she and her boyfriend did not have time to raise a baby but that putting up the baby for adoption would be 'throwing it away.' She assumed we, at almost sixty years old, would have no troubles or opposition to raising a newborn baby."
The OP also edited the post to share more about her relationship with Opal.
"Opal is always able to express her feelings with me or Eddy. Opal also has a therapist who is available to speak whenever she needs it. Opal visited the therapist weekly during middle school but now hasn't needed to see him more than once a month."
"We will be taking Opal on a mall trip to make up for what happened at the celebration dinner."
"We spoke privately to Opal after this incident, and she knows we in no way view her as a burden. Our granddaughter is a blessing and many of our happiest moments involved supporting Opal and watching her grow up."
"But Opal is sixteen: She doesn't need the kind of constant attention and care that a newborn baby does. We are now too old to be able to adequately raise a newborn baby even if we wanted to."
"The biggest problem is that Kelly is now an adult and needs to start acting like one."
"Kelly is supposed to outlive us. The reality is that Eddy and I aren't going to be alive for her or her children's entire lives. It is why Kelly needs to accept that she cannot expect us to take on her responsibilities and must be independent."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that she and her husband were doing the right thing.
"I was totally prepared to say yes, YTA, BUT after reading this and seeing how Kelly started it with the announcement, she opened it up to the responses."
"And since she bailed on her first child and during the pregnancy announcement basically laid the groundwork for pushing the next kid off on you, and then doubled down confirming that was what she was going to do, she deserved to be told that you wouldn't raise the next kid."
"Privately telling her wouldn't have made an impact and hit the message home because you've been there and done that. She needed this as a direct message WITH witnesses. Definitely NTA." - PuzzleheadedTap4484
"Reading this, I was legit shocked."
"OP's daughter is way too comfortable being a deadbeat parent. This lady had the audacity to hijack a party to celebrate her first child, who she did not raise, to announce that she is pregnant again and just expects to toss the new kid at her parents."
"Who does that? How can you feel entitled to decide when and how someone else becomes a parent? And to announce that she plans to abandon a second child so publically, at an event that was important to her first... does this woman have no shame?" - Electrical-Date-3951
"So she not only overshadowed Opal on being a godd**n rockstar, to announce that she's forming Opal's replacement, but Kelly also had the audacity after being such a piece of hot garbage out loud, to throw a temper tantrum about not being able to keep being the least responsible baby maker a second time. To the point that it thoroughly ruined the event."
"Kelly is probably jealous of Opal's ability to empathize with OP and PapaOP, as clearly empathy and compassion didn't land in this apple."
"Kelly made sure that her first throw-away baby wasn't, for a second, more important than Kelly. (Opal is twice the woman Kelly could be.)"
"She also made sure that her parents were in what she assumed would be an impossible position to refuse. Dropping the bomb in public lets her steal the show and claim to be the victim if she doesn't get what she wants."
"NTA, OP. As an adult of parents who treated their children like toys they could play with when it was in style, grandparents like you make literally all of the difference."
"You can't control the adult your child chooses to be. But you've given Opal the choice to become who she decides without drinking Kelly's poison." - Regulus-Rainwater
"Listen here, first of all, you two are NTA. Secondly, you can't help it Kelly turned out bad."
"Clearly, you're doing right by Opal and she's very lucky to have you, but you need to be careful. Kelly is going to try and get Opal to be the new mother to her kid, I'm sure."
"Be prepared for lots of sneaky manipulation from Kelly in trying to get Opal to come over and babysit. I bet you anything she'll try and get Opal if she can't get you two to take care of her kid."
"She's a despicable person, that Kelly. Ensure you protect Opal from her as you have been doing. NTA." - Sin-cera
Others agreed and urged the couple to talk to Opal about her relationship with her mom.
"Would you be willing to ask her if she wants Kelly at next year's celebration for graduation?"
"I had family members and a mom as self-absorbed as Kelly. She ruined my high school graduation making it about her. She did the same thing at my college graduation, and then again at my little sister's college graduation."
"Kelly sounds a lot like my mother, and Opal might quietly wish that her mom wasn't there to ruin these moments. I wasn't brave enough to ask if I could just have her not there. Instead, I begged not to go to graduation in the first place."
"Doing extra nice things afterward like going to the mall can work for non-life milestones, but I'll never get to graduate again. Neither will Opal." - cobblesquabble
"Your daughter has already completely disregarded Opal. Making her 'good news, I'm going to have a real baby now' announcement at an end-of-school-year party for Opal is some more grade-A trash behavior."
"You may not have let them know in the most civil way possible, but I'm gonna say NTA because of how thoroughly Kelly has made it clear her daughter doesn't matter. You may have eventually raised her enough to call it 'adoption,' but that was never the original intent, so Kelly can suck it."
"Also, on my first read, I completely missed that this was them asking you to raise the next one. Holy f**king s**t. Utter garbage, these people. I'm glad you said something right there. Firmly, loudly, rudely. They needed to hear it."
"Really, I would've supported being far more rude than you were. I'm glad Opal is in therapy and I'm glad she knows you don't see her as a burden. Kelly is the burden. What a waste of oxygen."
"Kelly has made it clear Opal doesn't matter to her. Maybe stop inviting her to stuff for Opal if this is the way she's going to be. Let Opal's events be for and about Opal. Since Kelly isn't interested in things for and about Opal, she can be left out."
"Of course, I'd get Opal's opinion on these things, as she's old enough to have them. But if she thinks of her mother the way her mother thinks of her, don't invite Kelly anymore." - MadamMarshmallows
"NTA. Her timing was super inappropriate, and I think your reply was warranted, despite the also awkward timing."
"I really feel bad for Opal. Please make sure she gets the attention she needs, as she may feel worse when the baby actually arrives in the off-chance that Kelly starts to act like a real mom to the new baby." - 1-800-deadgirl
"My guess is Opal got over this circus show a long time ago, knows full well her birth mother is a jerk, wishes her parents/grandparents would leave it alone but understands their frustration."
"Not once did anyone mention Opal was in tears during this. She's seen the show one too many times."
"Kelly not only asked you to raise the second one, but it was also cruel of her to announce the baby at a dinner focused on Opal at all. Anyone would react in anger to such heartlessness. NTA." - Internetperson3000
The subReddit was completely heartbroken for Opal and how her birth mother stole focus at her special accomplishments dinner.
They hoped that Opal would continue to work hard for herself and graduate next year with her grandparents by her side and her birth mother likely no longer in the picture.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp