Grief is complicated.
Perhaps the most surprising element of grief is that we don't know how it will manifest.
Drastically affecting our behavior in ways we never imagined it would.
Especially how we behave around others.
Redditor General-Routine8691 recently came home to discover a devastating occurrence at her neighbor's home.
Following this tragic turn of events, the original poster (OP) did their best to be there for their neighbormand comfort them during this time of grief.
Until, that is, the OP realized how much these same tragic events affected them.
Resulting in a major shift in their communication with their grieving neighbor.
Having guilt about their behavior, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**Hole" (AITA), where they asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for ignoring my friend's calls after his husband passed away?"
The OP explained why she couldn't bring herself to answer her neighbor's calls:
"I used to be friends with my neighbor Eli."
"He has a husband, Leo."
"About 1.5 years ago I distanced myself from Eli mainly because he's kind of selfish and wasn't a very good friend."
"I was still very friendly with both Eli and Leo though as we very briefly ran into each other once in a while."
"I've been very depressed recent months."
"After crying all morning, I went shopping just to get out of the house."
"While out, I saw a bunch of missed calls and a text from Eli saying: 'Leo just passed, please answer'."
"I called him and all I could understand through his crying was 'please come over'."
"So I rushed back."
"I saw an ambulance outside of our building."
"I thought 'I wonder if Leo is in it'."
"I could hear Eli screaming as I ran down the hallway to their apt, and as I opened the door, I saw Leo's dead body on the floor and Eli hugging him, sobbing, inconsolable."
"They were watching TV when Leo suddenly got up and said he has pain in his chest, then collapsed."
"Paramedics came and pronounced him dead."
"They said we now have to wait for police."
"We were waiting like this on the floor - Eli sobbing and hugging Leo's body, and me hugging Eli - for almost 2 hrs."
"Then police came, and we sat on the couch right in front of Leo for another few hours."
"I did my best to stay calm and collected and help Eli."
"Many hours later, they took Leo away."
"Eli asked me to help call Leo's parents who didn't know he was gay or married."
"He used Leo's phone, and called his mom but she thought he was joking."
"He cried so hard I had to take over and break her heart myself."
"Eli called his friends and family, begging to come be with him."
"Eventually Eli's cousins came but didn't stay long."
"I stayed till late night, ordered food, cleaned, etc."
"We watched TV under the same blanket I used to cover Leo's body."
"I didn't sleep that night."
"Next day his cousins came back for short time and left a mess."
"Multiple times Eli's family and friends mentioned 'Luckily that girl lives in the same building'."
"I started feeling I'm being used as an excuse to not step up."
"Eventually, I got home and slept."
"As I woke up I realized I physically can't go back there."
"Just the thought of entering that apartment makes me shake."
"Eli kept calling me and I didn't respond."
"I eventually texted him I got sick."
"But he keeps calling me."
"I'm afraid if I answer he'll cry and ask me to come."
"I feel deeply affected by what happened."
"I keep seeing flashbacks."
"I'm afraid to leave my apartment because I'm afraid to run into Eli."
"I was already depressed and I'm so so lonely."
"I don't have any support system."
"My therapy doesn't start for another two weeks."
"I don't have anyone to talk to."
"I feel so guilty for ghosting Eli in this horrible situation when his whole world collapsed."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community generally agreed that the OP was not the a**hole for ignoring Eli's calls.
Many felt there were no real a**holes in this particular situation, deeply sympathizing that Eli was simply looking for a source of comfort, but understood that taking his calls was also more than the OP could currently handle:
"No, dear, there's NAH."
"This was a catastrophe, and you are in crisis and need help."
"What happened to you was very traumatic,c and you are traumatized; you need to find help from your loved ones (or professionals, if those resources are available to you) to heal from this."
"You can't draw water from an empty well, and in my opinion, you should only consider assisting Eli in ways that contribute to or at least don't completely derail your recovery."
"You've already been more help to them than anybody else has."
"You can't keep anybody warm by setting yourself on fire."
"I'm so sorry this happened to both of you, what a horrible, tragic experience and loss."- InteractionLiving462
"NAH."
"His husband just died, and you were kind enough to help him through the immediate aftermath."
"It does suck that he doesn't have a support system he needs, but you don't either."
"You do need to respond to him and tell him that you can't emotionally support him how he needs right now."
"He will probably take this badly, but there is nothing you can do about that."
"Be honest, offer your condolences, but don't let him guilt you into offering help you aren't equipped to provide."
"You recognize that you can't help him and yourself simultaneously."- FALlacies_Ahoy
"NAH but you need to message him."
"Sorry that you can't go to his place and support him."
"You were already in a very dark place, and his apartment would bring back flashbacks that would make it worse."
"You still want to be there for him and help, but you need to modify it."
"Ask to go for a walk, go somewhere that relates to Leo."
"You have therapy starting. Once you have that going and some tools, maybe you can step up more in a balanced way."
"Offer to get him a treat."
"Invite him over instead."- wayward_painter
"NAH, and I'm sorry OP."
"Please don't just abandon him without a word."
"I know you're depressed and lonely, but chances are, so is he, and grieving on top of it."
"I'm not saying to jump any time he calls."
"I'm just saying maybe shoot him a text or something and explain to him how it's affected you."- Salty-Tip-7914
"NAH."
"I watched my husband die. I have flashbacks to it, and it was a 'peaceful' death (cancer), not a sudden unexpected thing."
"Add everything that happened that night you have experienced a huge traumatic event."
"I am so happy you have gotten therapy, from your post you are struggling with what you saw the biggest thing I did was talk to someone about it and it really helped."
"I will also mention the biggest thing I have found after losing a partner is the amount of people who abandon you."
"It's like they don't understand grief, especially when it is someone young."
"If you see his family and friends (or have a number to text), tell them that you are dealing with a traumatic event and they need to step up. You will not be."
"It's harsh, but to be honest, you need to think of your own mental health."
"Maybe if they know you won't be there to catch Eli, they will take the strain."
"I would also be honest and text Eli to say you are struggling with what happened, and you need a chance to take a step back and deal with your own trauma that you are thinking of him, and you will reach out when your mental health is better as right now you are unable to support him."
"I would speak with your therapist about how to proceed with talking to him again as they have more experience in this area."
"The biggest thing with grief is to be honest not just with yourself but those around you."
"Look online and see if there is a support group, I have found a few widow support groups and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a support group for those who have witnessed a event like you."
"Please feel free to message me if you need someone to talk to."-United_Account_5829
While others understood completely how the OP wasn't capable of handling talking to Eli right now, even if some felt she needed to tell him as much and not ghost him completely:
"NTA, but honestly, I would just straight-up text him that you are having panic attacks and flashbacks to yesterday and you can't function."
"If he was your friend, he knows that already, and while upset will get it."
"My brother's death was hard, but I didn't blame anyone else for being as freakout as me, and I never saw his body."
"Death is hard."
"Good luck."
"Also, he might be texting because he's worried what he did to you yesterday if you have an anxiety or panic disorder."
"That happens often with other people during a crisis."
"Afterwards they remember I can shut down and go into agoraphobia panic attacks."- quietlywatching6
Losing a partner is an indescribably devastating experience, so what Eli is going through is truly unimaginable.
However, it takes a very strong person indeed to be a constant shoulder to cry on.
And seeing as the OP didn't seem to be in a great place prior to Leo's death, she simply didn't seem to be in any sort of place to be an ongoing source of comfort.
However, it seems like having an honest conversation with Eli about this might be better for both of them than ghosting him completely.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp