Chances are you probably have someone in your life who has poor time management skills.
You invite that person to something, and you can count on the fact that they will always be late, without fail.
But is it wrong to lie to someone about what time an important event actually starts in anticipation that they will arrive to it late?
Redditor Chewychew5150 recently encountered this situation with his chronically tardy wife, so he turned to the subReddit "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) to see if he was in the wrong for his actions.
He asked:
"AITA for telling my wife that she needed to be at my graduation an hour before she needed to because she is always late for things?"
The original poster (OP) started by laying out the stark differences between his and his wife's relationships with time.
"I (27m[ale]) have been with my wife (27f[emale]) for 8 years. For 5 of those years I was in the military and I developed the habit of being early for everything I do."
"It is a huge pet peeve of mine if people are late for things when they could have been on time. If something happens out of your control and you are late then I totally understand."
"My wife is the type of person who is always late. Throughout our relationship she has made us late for events and it has been embarrassing."
But there was one incident that left the OP reeling.
"One of the worst incidents was when I was home on leave. We were planning on meeting my mom for breakfast ( I haven't seen in two years) at 9:00am."
"I told my wife the day before that I want to leave our place at 8:30 so we can get there by 8:50. We both wake up at 7:00 and I'm ready by 8:00."
"At that point she hasn't even started to get ready. I remind her multiple times that we need to leave by 8:30 but she kept saying 'we have time and I'll be fast'."
"She didn't start getting ready until 8:30. Long story short we were a hour late and we lost our reservation because of it."
"I was pissed but kept it to myself until we got home. I told her that I hated that she always made us late and it can be embarrassing sometimes."
"She apologized and said she would work on it. It never got any better. If anything she would get short with me if I mention the time."
When the OP's graduation from the police academy came around, he came up with a secret plan.
"Fast forward 3 years and I was graduating the police academy. The graduation was set to begin at 10:00am and people could start showing up at 9:15."
"Well...knowing my wife and not wanting her to be walking in as the ceremony was beginning, I told her that the graduation started at 9:15 and she needed to be there at 8:30 to find parking."
"Well sure enough I see her driving in AT 9:15!!! Of course I was a little pissed but glad that my plan worked. The rest of the graduation went as planned and I was happy."
The plan backfired, however, when his wife learned what time the ceremony was actually scheduled to begin.
"Afterwards a group of us and our spouses went out to celebrate. At one point my wife mentions that she was lucky that the ceremony got pushed back or she was going to be late."
"My friends were confused and told her that they saw her car and that she showed up right on time. My wife then asked what time was the ceremony supposed to start?"
"They all said 10:00am. At that point my wife just stared at me and I knew she was pissed."
The OP's wife felt manipulated.
"When we got home my wife blew up on me! She said she was pissed that I lied to her and didn't understand why I did."
"I told her that I knew that she would be late and so I told her a slightly earlier time to be safe. She said she was hurt and felt that I had manipulated her."
But when the OP pointed out that his plan worked, his wife shut down.
"This is where I might be the a**hole."
"I said 'how do you think I feel? I told you that the graduation started at 9:15 and you were still late! You knew how hard I worked throughout the academy and you couldn't even be on time for this one occasion.'"
"She got quiet and just said she's going to bed. She has barely spoken to me over the last couple days and I don't know if I was too harsh."
"So AITA?"
Redditors weighed in on the situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
They confirmed that the OP was NTA for doing what he needed to do, but warned him that he should be prepared to let her learn her lesson the hard way in the future.
"NTA. I wouldn't bother tricking her anymore, but I also certainly wouldn't wait for her. Next time you tell her that you need to leave by 8.30, then you leave at 8.30."
"If she is not ready, she gets left behind. If she is meeting you somewhere and she is late, leave."
"Every time she is so late, she is telling everyone that her time is more valuable than theirs. It is rude and inconsiderate."—Nothanksimallgood
"This the right take. My mother did this to us as children (probably not the best idea really) but it only took being left behind once or twice for you to be ready when she said you had to be ready."
"As an upside, as an adult it never takes me more than five minutes to be ready to leave the house."—eliraetherock
"NTA, but you need to stop letting her make you late for events. With the breakfast with your mom, you should have left in time to meet your mom when you said you would."
"Wife can drive herself, take an Uber or stay home. You accommodating her gives her no incentive to change and she does not respect other people enough to do it out of courtesy."
"So hold to your own standards and she can reap the consequences of doing as she pleases. I know you really wanted her at the graduation so I don't blame you for what you did but that trick won't work as a regular thing."—NotThisAgain234
"I agree. When you let her make you late to meet your mom, that meant your mom had to wait an hour by herself at a restaurant she didn't even get to eat at."
"When I'm sure she was so excited to see her child after months apart! You prioritized your wife's lack of respect over your MOTHER's time and love."—Calmandwise
It wasn't long before other Redditors weighed in with their own lateness horror stories.
"NTA. I literally had to lie to my mom about doctor's appointments, school events, games, anything that involved a time because she is always late."
"I still to this day have to lie to her about what time events start. It never occurred to her that being late affected everyone around us."
"I'd constantly get punished at practice if I was late. We've missed doctors appointments that I needed for being late and she'd raise hell but it was her fault. It was embarrassing."
"I may have an unpopular opinion and hurt some feelings but it is not cute to be 'fashionably late'. It's not cool to always be late showing up to dates, appointments, whatever, etc etc."
"To me personally, you're telling me that you don't value my time or me at all because if you did you'd make the effort to show up accordingly. Your wife should take some personal accountability and apologize in my opinion."—pdaddyfire
"The date thing - I used to make exceptions for people, but if you can't be on time for a first date, it's a bad sign for how seriously you take things later."—dftaylor
"I had an ex-boyfriend who was always late for everything. It's one of the main reasons that he is an ex."
"It's so disrespectful. I recognize some people genuinely do have a problem processing time, but usually it's just the person caring enough to make an effort to be on time."—Far_Administration41
One Redditor who admitted to having poor time management even weighed in to blast the OP's wife.
"I am one of said people who has no concept of time passing. 10 minutes, 30 minutes, and an hour can all feel the same to me."
"I also am very aware of this problem and actively try to 'lie to myself' about the time so that I won't be late because I really hate doing this to people."
"Maybe I'm not upset by this tactic because I do it myself, and because I learned it from my parents who did it to try and help, but I genuinely don't understand why OP's wife is upset *with him* instead of *herself*."—JeSuisSortie522
Perhaps the OP's wife should take the criticism to heart and realize that her lack of consideration for others' time is doing some real damage to those she cares about.
If she doesn't, she's bound to eventually get left behind.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp