Parenting is an incredibly difficult responsibility, and the task varies from kid to kid, and age to age.
Sometimes even when we feel like we've done everything we could do, something still goes wrong, admitted the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor conflictedMomThA was taken aback when she realized one of her sons had started bullying a girl he was supposedly friends with, though she'd raised him to be kind.
She punished him for it, but when she was criticized for her technique, the Original Poster (OP) wondered if she went too far.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for giving my son's new bike away after the 'prank' he pulled on a girl he was friends with?"
The OP found out her son had been bullying a girl.
"So recently I found out my son 'Jacob' (15) pulled an incredibly cruel 'prank' on one of the girls I'll call 'Ashley' that's in his friend group."
"I know this girl, she's been to our house and even attended Jacob's birthday party a month ago. She seemed incredibly sweet if not a bit shy."
"So when my oldest son 'Mark' (17) came to me and told me Jacob had asked Ashley out on a date as a prank, I was stunned."
"I asked how he could know this, hoping as any mother would that it wasn't true."
"But Mark showed me the family tablet we all use (but mostly my sons), and it seems Jacob forgot to log out of his chatting app, Discord."
"I read the long series of messages between Jacob and his friends as they mocked Ashley all through this heartless prank. I was speechless."
"And that's not even getting into HOW he was talking, like he was some thug and not a 15-year-old living in a gated community."
The OP knew punishment was in order.
"At first, I couldn't figure out what to do, or how to proceed. I'll admit that I never once imagined either of my boys would be the type of person to do something like that. But there was no way in h**l I was letting this go."
"So after a day of thought, I decided what was going to happen."
"First things first, he was grounded, for how long I'm not sure."
"Secondly, I'd gotten Jacob a bike for his birthday but it hadn't arrived until the day previous. I'd planned to give it to him when my parents came to visit since they'd been unable to make his party."
The OP decided on a consequence that would make a statement.
"But instead of that, I showed him I knew about the 'prank' and told him he was grounded. Then I made him carry the new bike out of my bedroom closet and to the car before driving to Ashley's house, him crying the whole way."
"I'd called her parents earlier and explained everything, and so once we got there, I had him cart it to their front porch and ring the bell."
"Then in front of me, Ashley, her parents, and God, I had him give a sincere apology and gift her the bike."
"Even I apologized to her, saying I didn't raise my boy this way, and what he did was unforgivable."
"I also called the parents of the other boys who were a part of this little stunt, and they all seemed rightfully horrified by their sons' involvement."
Some people thought this punishment was overly harsh.
"I felt I'd handled this all as best as I could, and my friends agreed."
"Though once my parents found out that I'd made Jacob give his birthday gift away, they said what I did went too far."
"I still feel like what I did was right, but having my parents more or less dogpile on me like this actually made me wonder if how I handled it was too extreme?"
"AITA here?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some said it was important for the son to learn a lesson so he could improve.
"NTA, you did the right thing. If there hadn't been consequences that hit where it hurt, he may not have learned how unacceptable that behavior is."
"That cruelty is sadly common in kids around that age, but this is the absolute right step towards him becoming a good man." - og_kitten_mittens
"NTA all the way. I would say parenting at its finest. Teaching a kid that there are consequences to what they do, not going overboard in the punishment, while at the same time making it up to the girl in the sweetest way possible."
"Ignore what your parents say. Grandparents are more likely going to side with the kid and coddle them. That is why the parenting is left to parents to do most of the time." - STL-Adventurer
"Given that the stunt so concerned older brother that he went to Mom, it must have been pretty bad. Good that Mom took action." - iadggm
"I hope he realizes that the pain of losing a bike was nothing compared to what he was going to do to her. The bike seemed to have some impact, so good on OP for this move." - msharek
"I'd have to find the study, but I recently heard that teenage boys actually exhibit a decline in empathy from roughly ages 16-18."
"OP, don't lose hope. My brother was similar at that age (more violent than cruel but talked the same big game) and once he graduated, he did a 180."
"And it sounds like you're doing a great job of showing him his behavior is unacceptable. You probably feel like you overreacted but frankly, I see it as an appropriate way to nip this in the bud." - vixvisuals
Others who had been bullied in the past appreciated what the OP did.
"As a female that had this prank pulled on them in high school, I want to say thank you for standing up and doing what's right."
"When it was done to me, it severely traumatized me and I didn't trust guys for a long time when I was asked out for fear it was another prank."
"I hate to say this, but this most likely wasn't a one-off situation, and you might want to look into how your son treats other kids in school as well. I don't want to say he's bullying any other kids, but if he has no issues pulling something like this with his friends, what else is he doing?" - italy2986
"I too had something like this happen, but it was my 'friends' plus my crush... Took a long time to trust anyone after that... Still don't have many friends, but the ones I do have are keepers!!" - muffy_graves
"I also had the same "prank" pulled on me in high school and it was unbelievably traumatizing. Took me years to actually trust that someone could like me. Sorry 'Ashley' went through it as well." - ViolaOlivia
"On behalf of the 'weird people' who have had that stunt (and other harmful bullying happen), thank you. What he did to Ashley was very cruel and things like that stay with a person."
"And then when we don't forgive our bullies, all we hear is 'boys will be boys,' and 'bUt ThEy ApoLoGiZeD!!!' and so on."
"NTA." - runningwithkimchi
"After I was bullied in grade 10, I isolated myself completely save for a small handful of people that weren't part of the same group, and so I had nowhere that I actually belonged."
"By the end of my high school life, I had three friends total and deep depression. I couldn't believe that people actually wanted to be friends with me anymore, and it took a long time to get over." - k3ndrag0n
Some also recommended double-checking the son's activity in other areas of his life.
"Look into how your son treats women and speaks about them in general too. This isn't the behavior of a man who respects women."
"OP, please go through the search history (including Youtube app recommendations) on that iPad with your older son, so he can verify what was him and what would've been the 15-year-old."
"You might find him consuming content from known misogynists (people like Ben Shapiro and Joe Rogan, for example) and you need to nip that in the bud now if so." - trashcanofficial420
"The kid uses discord, so there's a high chance he's part of several gaming communities with a propensity towards light misogyny." - BadTanJob
"As a 'weirdo' who had this pulled on them (and violence, and harassment, and generally making me feel like s**t for not being cookie cutter), seriously consider monitoring his behavior for a while."
"He's still a minor, but if he thinks that this was just a prank, he may have darker behaviors later." - Badger_of_Horrors
"I had an education professor once say that a punishment needs to 'hurt the child' and then went on to explain it has to have some teeth so they realize there are consequences. It sounds like that is what you did."
"Your parents sound like they are separating the actions from their grandchild and looking through rose-colored glasses."
"It might not hurt to get your son into some therapy too." - murppie
"NTA."
"Your parents will never be able to give unbiased advice on discipline that actually hurts their grandson. Grandparents (those with a good relationship with their family) are almost always softer on the kids than parents, they don't HAVE to do the tough part anymore."
"Yes, you were harsh on him, I'm not quite sure it was the path I would have taken, but this was a despicable act and he NEEDED to make amends in a way that truly cost him. There's no 'one size fits all' answer here, consequences need to bite with what your child values."
"Make sure you follow up with conversations that show you still love him but it is your job as a parent to help guide his development as a person, because if he is behaving like this then he is obviously in need of redirection."
"Tell him the lessons you hope he will learn from this episode in adult language and verbiage, because without explanation it might just manifest as teenage resentment of you disciplining him." - aussiealterego
Though the OP was second-guessing herself after being criticized by her parents, the subReddit was sure she had done the right thing. The OP had chosen something that would make a statement against her son's behavior, hopefully encouraging him to never repeat it again.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp