Friends enter our lives at different stages.
We may have childhood friends, school friends, college friends, work friends, church friends, etc... But as we grow as people, not every friend will continue with us.
And there's nothing wrong with that. If our lives diverge, the friendship may have run its course.
A woman in conflict with two of her friends turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Wisespender asked:
"AITA for 'ruining' my friends vacation?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I (female, 38) just got back from a vacation with two of my longtime friends, 'Kate' (female, 40) and 'Mary' (female, 38). I've known them both since university, and we've always been close."
"The three of us had been planning this Bali trip for a few months, along with our husbands and their kids. They both have children under 5, while my husband 'Jake' (male, 45) and I are childfree."
"We agreed to split the cost of a four-bedroom villa three ways, and everything seemed fine at first."
"Jake and I arrived in Bali earlier than the rest of the group because we had different flights. Once we got to the villa, we waited to choose rooms with our friends and didn't mind when they both chose the ones with en suites."
"We had a great time during the trip—Jake and I did some couples activities—massages, hiking, dinners—but we also spent time with Kate and Mary and their families whenever it worked for everyone. To be nice, I even surprised them with massages to give them a break."
"The only thing that made me uncomfortable was that whenever I ordered a drink—a cocktail before dinner, or a glass of wine with meals—I'd get comments like 'Oh, you're drinking again?'."
"For context, I'm a social drinker and don't drink often, but we were on vacation, and I didn't think it was a big deal, especially since our husbands were drinking too. I just ignored the comments so I could enjoy the trip."
"On the last night, Jake and I made plans with the guys to go out, and Kate and Mary said they were staying in to pack. Jake convinced me to join him, and since it was the last night of our vacation, I didn't want to stay in either."
"We went out and had a great time. I passed out in my bed after a night out in heels—we were out at a bar till 1am and I was exhausted."
"I only drink as much as I can handle—4-5 cocktails over 6ish hours is my max. As a woman in her late 30s, I have bad hangovers so I drink within reason. My husband, on the other hand, drinks a lot more than I can handle."
"The next morning was a bit chaotic with everyone packing and checking out, but we all made it back home without issue. We had booked business class seats back, so we were separated during the flight and said quick goodbyes at the airport."
"A week after returning home, I got a long text from Kate saying that both she and Mary wanted to reduce contact with me because I had 'ruined their vacation'."
"They mentioned several things, like me drinking every night, that I wasn't acting like a 'girls' girl', that I booked different flights, didn't hang out with them enough, and that I was selfish for not helping with their kids."
"She even said I was just focused on partying and not acting my age.This message really hurt me."
"I cried after reading it, and I honestly don't know what to think. I thought I was just enjoying my vacation, but clearly, they had a very different view."
"Jake and I spent 50% of the time with them and the rest doing our own thing. We went on an ATV/hiking tour, visited temples, went snorkeling, spa/massages—also with Kate and Mary—and went to the markets."
"The rest of the trip we spent with them in the pool or at the beach. We had dinner with them. We had breakfast separately and lunch with them about half the time.The last night there we went out to a lounge/bar with the guys after dinner."
"Overall, we wanted to get the most out of the trip because we spent a lot on it and figured we could have a few days of downtime after we got back."
"Our holidays are generally activity filled—that's why we didn't care about having nicer rooms because the intention was to be out and about. My friends had their SOs with them, so I didn't realize I was doing anything wrong."
"I accept that I am giving a one sided description because my pov is the only one I can have."
"I haven't responded yet, and my husband has been asking what's bothering me, but I don't know what to say."
"AITA for how I acted during the trip?"
The OP summed up their situation.
"I just wanted to enjoy myself on holiday. I might have not have spent enough time with my friends."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors unanimously decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"What the f*ck? Those friends are jealous… that's ThankNTA. Take another vacation with your husband and post the pics. Caption 'finally a real vacation'." ~ Reddit
"NTA. They're just jealous and expected you to lighten their childcare load."
"Just because they have kids doesn't mean if you go on holiday with them you must stay and look after the children just because you're a woman."
"They need to tell this bull to their husbands as well because there sure is a double standard there."
"Partying? They must be joking. You go on holiday to enjoy things. Food, beverage, and experiences."
"Honestly, they're jealous because they feel that they can't have a drink before dinner because of kids and responsibilities, and because of this, it makes them resent you for doing it."
"They just expect you to be 'grown up' with a boring life like them. Even though that's a completely unrealistic expectation."
"They probably can't even admit it to themselves. They need a reality check, but they probably won't listen to it from you."
"I'd say my piece as to why I disagree with what they've said and then just back right off the friendship."
"If they're good friends, they will try to make amends. If not, you're probably no longer compatible, which sucks but you might be better off." ~ Top_Most_3528
"They literally expected more from you than they expected from their own husbands when it came to childcare. They are mad at you for doing what their husbands did."
"The difference is that you don't have kids and their husbands do. So if anyone should have held back on drinking, it was their husbands."
"Their husbands should have shared the load—not you. Holy internalized misogyny." ~ schaden_friende
"NTA. Why are the fathers of the children not expected to help with the childcare, but you are? This is sexism, though perpetrated by women." ~ ratishi
"Their own husbands get off scott free to have a good time, but OP should chip in with their kids because she has a vagina?"
"Nope. F that noise. I'd be at the bar doing shots too." ~ PrincessCG
The OP provided two updates, first.
"Thank you, Reddit, for all your kind words and support. Reading through the responses and seeing how many of you are upset on my behalf has made me reflect on how I initially planned to handle things."
"I was going to apologize, thinking it might be the easiest way to keep the peace, but now I realize that might not be the right approach after all. I have also showed my husband, Jake, this post and the text message, and he told me to thank you for looking out for me."
"He's actually pretty angry on my behalf about the text message. I showed him some of the comments that gave me insight on how my friends may have been feeling which has given us both a lot to think about."
"He asked me what I wanted to do next and if I wanted him to respond to my friends for me. While I appreciated the offer, I told him I'm still thinking it over."
"He reassured me that he's here for me no matter what, and if I decide I want him to step in, he'd be ready to say something on my behalf."
"For now, I'm going to sleep on it and take some time before I respond or don't respond to the text message. If I do, I'll post an update."
"Again, thank you all for helping me see things a bit more clearly. I feel less alone in this now."
The OP later added:
"I spoke with Mary by text. She said she agreed on most parts of Kate's text and they both have had a problem with me for ages because I invited them to or only organized adult only events and nothing family friendly."
"Which isn't true. I was the one who organized her baby shower..."
"I added both of my ex-friends to a group chat to discuss my feelings."
"Throughout the interaction, no apology for their passive aggressive comments or even acknowledgement that I tried to be accomodating. I gave them better rooms, organized massages, kept our shared space organized, made all the dinner reservations, helped prep snacks, got gifts for them and the kids."
"Mary just said that she's sorry it's come to this and Kate just ignored me. I was so disappointed in these women who I thought were my friends."
"I blocked them and unfollowed them on social media. I'm actually glad I found out sooner rather than later."
"I am going to share this Reddit post with our mutual friends who want the T."
Told Jake about it, he just said good riddance. I'm going to Japan next March and Fiji in December for a wedding."
"I'll be posting on social media with the caption 'finally a real vacation'. Thank you to the person who suggested it."
When friends from high school or college progress in life by getting married or choosing to have children, their priorities will naturally change.
However, expecting friends who haven't made those choices to change their priorities to match is unreasonable and selfish.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp