A big conversation a couple has to have before they get married or commit to staying together long-term is whether or not they want to have children and how big they want their family to be.
Every once in a while, someone will change their minds, but just like when they were dating, both people have to agree to the new idea, or the relationship might be over, cautioned the members of the “Am I the A**hole?” (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Tdwy837 had been with his wife for almost two decades, they shared three children, and up until the last year or so, they had been very happy.
But when issues started to arise, including his wife demanding that they double their family in size, the Original Poster (OP) wasn’t sure his marriage was meant to last.
He asked the sub:
“AITAH for telling my wife we either go to marriage counseling or I will file for divorce?”
The OP and his wife’s marriage was dissolving over a variety of issues.
“My wife (31 Female) and I (32 Male) have been together for 11 years and married for six years.”
“We have three young kids together, and our marriage is falling apart, and my wife doesn’t want to change a thing.”
A major issue was doubling the size of their family.
“One of our biggest issues is the topic of more kids. My wife has decided that three is nowhere near enough, and she wants to have several more children.”
“She wants at least three more, but she likes the idea of even more than that, while I’m done with the three we have.”
“She has tried to tell me we’ll be having at least three more kids, and there’s nothing I can say or do to stop it. So we haven’t had sex in five months.”
“She has called me an a**hole, has accused me of hating our kids, and when I tell her to stop saying it, she says I must hate them to not want more of them.”
“She shuts down any concerns I bring up, and she never has an answer to where we’ll get the money or time for three or more extra kids.”
“Plus, her last delivery was difficult, and they told us they wouldn’t recommend many more pregnancies for her. She doesn’t care, and she told me this.”
“She says not giving in makes me manipulative.”
The couple also could not agree about the time they were spending with their children.
“One of our other big arguments is over time with the kids. We both work, and I feel like we should both be involved with the kids and taking care of the house.”
“She tries to hog all the time when we’re not working. She has told me she doesn’t want me to take time with our kids from her, and I have told her I just want to spend some time with them, too.”
“The times I do have the kids, she acts like she doesn’t get to see them for weeks, even though we live in the same house. I leave her to do everything else, even though I do my fair share.”
“I have tried to suggest we figure out a schedule or just do things as a family, but she says I’m not going to take over the kids and leave her cleaning after work.”
“I can’t bring up sharing time with the kids and chores because she’s not okay with it being mentioned.”
Tensions were rising about other issues, as well.
“Another of our big issues is money. We disagree on how we spend, save, and utilize the money we earn. It actually comes back to the topic of having more kids and how we spend time with our kids now. She doesn’t have any concern for financial stability, and I do.”
“There are other smaller things we fight about, too. None of those are as frequent or as long-standing.”
“But for a year now, our marriage has been falling apart, and she speaks to me like she hates me 80% of the time. There’s no middle ground or talking things through because she resorts to name-calling.”
The OP reached a point where he gave his wife an ultimatum.
“After trying to speak with her and asking for therapy before, and her turning me down flat, I reached the end of the line. I started therapy on my own and booked us a marriage counseling session, but she didn’t show.”
“After a few more individual sessions, I told my wife it’s either marriage counseling or divorce, because I don’t want to raise our kids hearing these daily fights and feeling caught between feuding parents day after day.”
“My wife said it wasn’t my call to say either or, and if I really cared, I would be fighting harder for our marriage.
“AITAH?”
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You’re the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that he had already fought for his marriage before the ultimatum.
“Did you actually mean it when you said it’s either marriage counseling or divorce?”
“If you actually meant it, then you’re not the AH because you are simply stating what your boundaries are here. Marriage counseling IS fighting hard for your marriage. And if she refuses marriage counseling, you have to actually follow through and start seeking divorce.”
“But if you only said it to pressure her and are unwilling to follow through with divorce if she refuses, then you would be just emotionally manipulating her, which would make you an AH, even if she’s one too.”
“Either way, she’s definitely being an AH in this situation, especially when she says you don’t get a say in whether there will be more kids. That’s so far from reasonable that it makes me think this may even be a mental illness problem for her.” – Pandoratastic
“Marriage counseling IS fighting hard for your marriage! It is WORK. It’s going to be uncomfortable, emotional, and probably very painful to work through all the years of hurt.”
“It’s rebuilding your marriage in a healthy way with open communication. It’s taking responsibility for your own words and actions, no matter how awful they may have been.”
“But one thing it’s not is a one-man or one-woman show. BOTH people have to really want to do the work, to make things better for themselves and for their family.”
“OP, if your wife refuses therapy/marriage counseling, this isn’t sustainable. In fact, it’s downright toxic for the whole family. She’s made her choice. Time for you to make yours.” – royalsgirl78
“Fighting harder for your marriage… OP’s wife, honey, he can’t fight for his marriage if it’s you he’s fighting.”
“And instead of asking if you don’t love your kids, OP, I’d ask why SHE doesn’t love them. Are they not enough? And why is she obsessed to a point where she will go against doctors’ advice, and risk her health, or maybe even her life, to pop out more and more… and more?”
“I wouldn’t wait for this to escalate any further. And I hope you already talked to a lawyer. You know she’s going to go for full custody, if she can’t even ‘share’ the kids while married.”
“Are you truly nothing more than a sperm donor to her, at this point? I fear marriage counseling would never get through to her. She might need psychiatric help.”
“NTA.” – Baudica
“NTA! Divorce her and you’ll get fifty-fifty time with the kids, perfect share, she can find as many baby daddies she needs to get those extra kids, and everyone’s happy!”
“Maybe you’ll find a good stepmom to your kids that will be there for them once their mom starts neglecting them for her new kids.”
“Yup! Divorce it is!” – MildLittlRain
“NTA. You can’t save a marriage where there is no respect. She does not respect you. She doesn’t want to hear a thing you have to say.”
“She refuses to look at the logistics or financials that are involved in having more children; she flat-out told you that you WILL be having more children, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.”
“Time to see a divorce lawyer to make sure you get equal time with your children.” – New-Comment2668
Others gave the OP advice about what to do next.
“After our second child, we had a conversation about family size. All my wife’s family members have lots of kids, like between five and nine.”
“After child two, I told her that, after a lot of thought, I was okay with having one more. And that was when our third was one year old and past the window for SIDS, I would be getting a vasectomy.”
“I told her to take her time thinking about it because I knew it was an important life decision.”
“I also told her that if three wasn’t enough for her, no harm, no foul, we could amicably part ways and she could have as many kids as she wanted with husband number two.”
“She agreed to three, I got my vasectomy on schedule, and we had no tension over it.” – mem2100
“Why haven’t you gotten a vasectomy? You need to divorce this woman now, and since you don’t want any more children, you don’t need to put birth control on your future partners.”
“NTA for your ultimatum, but this marriage can’t be saved. At least you’ll be able to spend time with your kids once you get 50/50 custody.” – Fragrant-Point2278
“You can love as many children as you have, but the more kids you have, the less time and money is available. The children you have deserve one-on-one time, not being compelled to bring up their siblings because there are so many of them.”
“People can be hoarders of people and animals, as well as possessions, and your wife needs a mental health evaluation, especially as she feels she can tell you that you don’t love your own children because you don’t want more.”
“Your children deserve two divorced parents who both put them first rather than living in the war zone of her creation. She sounds like she expects to get her own way even when it disadvantages everyone else.” – TheNinjaPixie
“It looks like your wife is addicted to having children to avoid your relationship problems or her personal problems. If she doesn’t agree to marriage counseling, it sounds like the end of your relationship.”
“Also, if you won’t get her pregnant, watch out for her cheating to get pregnant with someone else, hoping you would accept the new child. Get your exit plan ready.” – Nice-Pomegranaate2915
“Time for a divorce. But you are going to have to seek joint custody.”
“And if you are in a one-party video recording State, I would start secretly getting video of her trash-talking you and saying you hate the kids cause you won’t have more. This is enough to point towards parental alienation. And it will affect custody.”
“You are no longer at the point where you need to be asking if you should get a divorce; you are at the point when you need to plan an exit.”
“And this may take a couple of months:”
“1. If you don’t have a separate bank account, now is the time. All work checks should go into there.”
“2. Start gathering your paperwork. Make copies of everything. This doesn’t have to be a big, bulky file. It can go on a thumb drive.”
“3. Rent a storage locker to keep your hard copy paperwork and any items you don’t want her to destroy in a fit of anger. She sounds like a very manipulative person who is fully capable of doing so.”
“4. Copy all family photos and documents onto a thumb drive.”
“5. Find a good lawyer.”
“6. Work with your therapist for an exit strategy.”
“NOR and good luck. It sounds h**lish living with her.” – PolkaDotDance
The subReddit was shocked by how the OP’s marriage had dissolved and urged him to find an exit point. He needed to plan for divorce and shared custody, so that he and his wife could still have time with their children without having to spend time with each other and without having to pretend that they still had the same goals in life anymore.