If there are two things children hate hearing from their parents more than anything else, it might be "actions have consequences" or "you can't always get want you want".
Possibly the two most important things for anyone to learn, and the earlier the better.
After all, children need to learn that they can't always get their way, nor can bad behavior be rewarded.
Indeed, more often than not, bad behavior might be met with severe reprimands, far worse than "go to your room" and "no T.V."
The elder daughter of Redditor Aromatic_Agency_8653 was soon to be married, and their younger daughter wanted to be a bridesmaid.
A position she was not initially given, but was finally awarded after pestering her older sister somewhat aggressively.
However, after being less than pleased about one of the conditions of being a bridesmaid, the original poster (OP)'s younger daughter had an abrupt change of heart.
Feeling the need to teach their daughter that this was less than acceptable behavior, the original poster (OP) felt there was only one suitable punishment.
Wondering if they were out of line, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where they asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for making my daughter pay back a $1000 dress she was supposed to wear in a wedding?"
The OP explained why they felt it was necessary to demand their teenage daughter pay up:
"I have a daughter, Emma (16 F[emale]), who was supposed to be a bridesmaid in her older sister's wedding."
"My oldest wasn't planning to have Emma in the wedding party."
"It was Emma who really wanted to be a bridesmaid because she was excited and wanted to be involved."
"My oldest agreed to include her, even though it meant extra costs and adjustments."
"The bridesmaid dresses, shoes and fitting were around $1000 each, which we agreed to pay for since Emma did not have that cash."
"The wedding is in a month Emma suddenly changed her mind."
"She refusing to wear the dress since she thinks it is ugly, saying it is unflattering on her."
"It is but didn't speak up at any part."
"She said she felt uncomfortable, wasn't close to the other bridesmaids, and didn't want to participate anymore.'
"I reminded her that she had been the one pushing to be a part of the wedding, but she was firm and backed out."
"Now, we're stuck with a $1000 dress that can't be returned."
"I told Emma that since she was the one who wanted to be in the wedding and then backed out, she would need to pay us back for the dress—either by working part-time or payment plan using her gift money."
"Emma is upset and says it's unfair, claiming we're punishing her for not wanting to do something she wasn't comfortable with anymore."
"Multiple family members think I am too harsh."
"I didn't go to my oldest and pressure her to make Emma a bridesmaid."
"My oldest gave in after Emma pestered her about it."
"Emma has a phone."
"I don't even learn about the pestering until after she was added."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community was in agreement that the OP was not the a**hole for making Emma pay for her bridesmaid's dress.
Everyone agreed that even if $1000 was a lot for a teenager to pay, Emma needed to learn that she couldn't always back out of something she agreed to do, just because of one thing she didn't like, and standing and supporting her sister on her big day should have been a priority over whether or not she liked the dress.
"NTA."
"A lot of people are in the comments making assumptions or straight up making things up that are the opposite of what OP has stated."
"The dress is the same for all the bridesmaids and Emma has only ever met the other bridesmaids while supervised so there hasn't been any bullying."
"The bride didn't even want Emma as a bridesmaid, this is something that Emma pushed for."
"The fact is she's 16 and bulldozed her way into a position as a bridesmaid and now that she's realized the style of dress isn't ideal she's throwing a tantrum."
"Frankly how she feels about the dress doesn't matter."
"The wedding is about the bride and the bride picked the same dress for all the bridesmaids and didn't even want Emma there."
"Emma pushed for this so she should either suck it up and wear the dress or she should take responsibility for her decisions and pay back the cost of the dress."
"Again this is a 16yr old that bullied her way into being a bridesmaid despite being warned of the cost and now she's wanting to drop out because the dress isn't ideal."
"She was perfectly fine spending her parents money but now that there's real consequences she's upset."
"They made it clear they did not pressure the bride, there was no bullying, and that Emma made it clear she dropped out because she didn't like the dress after getting it back from alterations after the fitting."- Silaquix
"NTA."
"She's not being punished, she is just having to face the real world consequences of changing her mind."
"Making her pay back the money is the right course of action for a 16 y/o to learn from."- ReviewOk929
"Make her pay or be a bridesmaid."
"This probably messes up the whole bridal party because the number of groomsmen will be off."
"Emma is too young and immature to grasp that."
"I'd have a heart to heart and see if you can help her through her insecurities."
"But also explain the ripple effect of her choices and that she will be made to feel it."
"Her behavior is on par with her stage of development, but this is where she really needs to start experiencing the impact of her choices."
"Saying you are 'uncomfortable' doesn't change the fact that she pushed her way into the bridal party and is now backing out and that a dress was purchased for her for $1,000."
"She can decide if it's more uncomfortable to wear a bridesmaid's dress or to pay you back."
"NTA."- sleddingdeer
"While I personally feel that you should not have humored this at all, NTA."
"This is what happens when you back out last minute when everyone paid for you."- applebum8807
"NTA."
"This is a valuable lesson to learn."
"1000 seems like a lot for a teenager, but she'll be a lot more careful with her future commitments."-
cndnsportsfan
'NTA."
"Emma pushed to be in the wedding."
"If she changed her mind because she hated the dress, she should've said that when she first tried it on and definitely prior to it being paid for since it's non-refundable."
"You can try to sell it to make some of the money back and have Emma pay the difference but I don't think you're being extremely harsh or cruel."
"The loss of $1,000 is a result of a series of choices Emma made, there are consequences for people's actions and choices, Emma is not a toddler she's 16."- Zealousideal-Divide6
"NTA."
"Emma is old enough to deal with the consequences of her actions."- AgnarCrackenhammer
"NTA."
"A sixteen year old is old enough to understand consequences."
"I get being a teenage girl wanting so desperately to be a part of something only to shut down and be embarrassed when things aren't the way they hoped."
"Perhaps she's also realizing she overstepped in the first place and is juggling all the emotions and confusion that comes with that."
"I made similar (although less expensive) choices as a teenager."
"It took a long time to realize I was misreading some common social norms and expectations when it came to relationships."
"There's many reasons this can happen."
"Your daughter needs compassion here because there's definitely other things going on."
"At the same time, you can be a compassionate parent while holding her accountable."
"Support her emotionally and don't be too harsh about the money, but I do support your choice to have her get a job to pay the money back."
"NTA."- EmpressJainaSolo
"NTA."
"Pushing to be a member of the wedding party, no matter your relation to the bride, will almost always come off a bit tacky."
"And Emma needs to learn now that weddings aren't about making everyone Instragram-perfect."
"And that bridesmaid dresses almost always look a little bit sh*t... but that it doesn't matter because it's not your day."
"She's allowed to be upset about not being asked, but making a stink until she was included was frankly, just rude."
"The fact that she's 16 means that now, every bridal party activity has to be 'minor-friendly', she isn't close to the others and they have whole different life experiences (which may be a reason that her sister excluded her in the first place)."
"16 is a perfectly fine age to learn that if you demand people change their plans and spend their money to include you, you don't get to then back out without consequences."
"$1000 is a lot of money, and not something most people have just lying around."
"16 is definitely old enough to learn the value of money, and doing that by having her repay it over time (so she really experiences how much work goes into having $1000 to spend) is a great thing."
"Maybe next time, she'll think a little harder about what she really wants."- yalldointoomuch
Based on her behavior, one gets the sense that Emma wanted to be a bridesmaid for the glory of it all, and would likely be the center of attention
Ignoring the fact that the wedding is her sister's big day, not hers.
If Emma was reminded of those two, aforementioned life lessons with a vengeance for her behavior, she also learned the hard way that people often pay the price for selfish or immature behavior.
Even if Emma is in a bit of an unusual situation of paying a literal price.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp