Control can be difficult to let go of.
So, what happens when the control you've enjoyed for so long begins to slip away?
That was the issue facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) Direct-Cheesecake772 when they came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for judgment.
OP asked:
"AITA for not teaching my daughter to drive?"
OP began with a bit of background.
"I have a daughter (18) who currently has a drivers permit, and is intent on learning how to drive."
"The way it works in our state is that after 18 you must take the written test, and have your permit for a minimum of 30 days or a maximum of 6 months."
"She is currently on month 3."
OP then explained the immediate history of the current concern.
"However, recently she has had behavioral problems that I feel that needed to be addressed."
"For instance, she does not validate our concerns, is emotional, and is indifferent to our feelings."
"She does not have the best social skills, and sometimes doesn't smile to those who greet her at church."
"She also has expressed not wanting to be around us on Christmas Eve because she has to go into work."
"She also is a bit prideful when we address her, and I feel like she needs to be more humble."
"I expressed to her that if she does not change her behavior I will not continue to teach her to drive, even though her drivers permit will expire soon."
"She has expressed to us that she rather have us take her phone because learning to drive is important to her, and her only chance at freedom."
"I explained that respect is more important than learning to drive, and we are trying to work on her character?"
They were left to wonder,
"AITA for the way I am disciplining her?"
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for judgment.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: YTA
Some pointed out that this line of punishment may be self-defeating.
"YTA."
"If I weren't an ex-evangelical, I probably wouldn't think anyone would actually try to parent like this."
"Trying to keep your kids under your thumb is only going to backfire."
"You think depriving them of their freedom will teach them values, instead it will teach them to lie and manipulate to get what they need from you and others."
"And it will basically ensure they never learn to actually value your feelings because you have positioned yourself as an adversary and an oppressor."
"You must model compassion, respect, and humility to get it in return." ~ the-benn-experience
"As it turns out, parents who lie and manipulate to maintain control will produce children who lie and manipulate to get control."
"Who knew?" ~ DoctorNo6051
Of course, there were also personal stories.
"Her parents are also going to have to be willing to give her her documents (SS card, birth certificate, etc) to get that permit and license."
"If OP is half as controlling as my mother was they'll refuse to give that over until they basically allow her to get a license." ~ ablondedude
"Exactly what my mom did."
"Had to beg to get my learner's permit by 18 and beg for license by 19."
"Only reason I even got it was so I could start working and because she didn't want to drive me to college every day (thank god)."
"After getting through college while working full time and paying her steadily rising rent on top of the 15+ hours a week of housework she made me do I was finally able to escape at 27."
"The whole time she used me being stuck there as leverage to control everything I do, the money I spend, and who I spend time with."
"The last 3 years I lived there I literally didn't go anywhere, do anything, or hang out with any friends so she'd have nothing to spy on."
"You want to demand complete access to my private life fine, enjoy being nosey about the absolute nothing I do."
"Was able to rekindle most of those friendships once I was free though." ~ ablondedude
"Yeah... OP is raising a future (if not already) atheist and ya can't blame her for wanting nothing to do with religion as she grows up."
"People always assume I had an ultra strict upbringing with a pastor for a father, but nope."
"He let us be individuals, even if that meant exploring anti-christian materials and media because free thought is the only way to truly experience spirituality."
"You have to choose God by your own free will."
"Religion SHOULD be questioned because that's exactly what Jesus did - he rebelled against and questioned the religious leaders of his time."
"Back when I had my abortion, my dad believed abortion was murder (though he was still pro-choice) so I was kinda nervous to tell him."
"His first reaction was to hug me, tell me he loved me, and say he was there to talk if I needed comfort."
"Little things like that are far more effective at keeping someone in the faith rather than pushing them away and shaming them." ~ CrazyCat-DogLady
Several people felt there might be underlying problems here.
"YTA."
"You are a failure as a parent."
"Instead of preparing your child to be an independent adult you are controlling every aspect of her life right down to her effing facial expressions."
"With the ability to drive comes a certain amount of freedom, which means you lose some control."
"So you manufactured a reason to deny her those freedoms specifically to maintain complete control." ~ FatTony394
"I'm so glad someone else picked up on this."
"OP honestly sounds like your daughter is realising she is an adult with autonomy and not a child."
"You sound to hate that you she's becoming independent in her life and opinions, and isn't blindly following your wants anymore. Also YTA." ~ MrsActionParsnip
"Wish I could upvote this more than once."
"OP, YTA."
"You crave authority that is not yours to wield."
"Your daughter is her own person, not some plaything that you can control so you can get your jollies."
"You want a smile? Go to Chic-fil-a or buy a f*cking Barbie doll."
"She doesn't care about your feelings? Nobody else does either buttercup."
"She lacks social skills? She's a teenager, not a Disney character."
"She doesn't want to go to church? Sadly, church people are the biggest obstacle to church growth and outreach."
"I can't say I blame her."
"You want her to show humility? Is she following by your example?"
"Don't be surprised if down the road your relationship with your daughter is ruined to the point of being irreparable because you forgot that she's a human being with vices and virtues just like everybody else." ~ Classic-Music4Evr788
Commenters wanted to see OP's daughter be free.
"THIS."
"Sometimes doesn't smile at those who greet her ugh I CANNOT with that garbage."
"I hope her daughter knows someone else that can teach her to drive so that she can peace out ASAP"
"Edit:"
"Holy upvotes! This is the most I've ever gotten! Way to make me feel good for the holidays all you reddit peeps!"
"Edit #2:"
"Also! Thank you to everyone understands how degrading and condescending it is to tell women to smile."
"I can rant about this for dayyyyysssss but this post as a whole is just….to keep it short outdated and why when women take one step forward we got knocked two steps back."
"Thank you everyone again for the upvotes!" ~ Healthy-Thanks8474
Some called out the lack of respect.
"YTA, she's 18."
"What were you doing for the past 18 years?"
"The more you discipline the more she will find other ways, maybe a half crack bf or someone else who would help her learn to drive and she will be off."
"Stop treating her like she's 6 and try negotiating with her than threatening or trying to discipline her." ~ SPolowiski
"YTA, doesn't sound like you're treating her with much respect either."
"I mean really, not smiling at church? Is that really something worth punishing for?"
"You get as much as you put it, it ain't a one way street."
"Edit:"
"OP is a hypocrite, they say they want to teach their daughter to be humble or in their own definition, 'able to accept sound wisdom without feeling personally attacked."'
"Yet you gotta hundreds of people giving you sound advice OP and you refuse to listen to any of them and double down."
"Which if I remember correctly is a surefire sign of insecurity, right OP?" ~ BIG_MONEY_CASH
OP did return to try and supply some clarity.
"Edit:"
"I didn't realize that treating other people kindly and respecting your parents was not a popular opinion on Reddit."
"Whenever we talk to our daughter she immediately gets defensive and emotional."
"I told her that's insecurity at it's finest."
"Even you disagree with your parents you have to remain respectful."
"Being rude and indifferent is NOT a personality trait, being withdrawn is selfish."
"Because you're only thinking about how you feel.
"Indifference/coldness will not be tolerated in my house."
"You must consider other people's feelings."
"She needs to learn to listen to criticism before she gets out into the world."
"She told me that she is nice to her friends, but again, selective kindness is not kind. If she wants to be rude, she needs to move out to do so."
"Edit #2"
"When I reference humility it simply means being able to accept sound wisdom without feeling personally attacked. Which is a sure fire sign of insecurity."
Control can be difficult to let go of.
Difficult, however, does not mean impossible.
Be kind where possible, and remember that the way we treat people can - and should - grow as they do.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp