Content Warning: Affair, Affair Baby, Divorce
Everyone has different standards when it comes to what they will put up with in a friendship, relationship, or even connection with a family member.
What would annoy one person might be a total deal breaker for someone else.
But we should all be able to agree that siblings having an affair, as well as resulting children, would be a deal breaker for anyone, pointed out the users of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Fantastic_Car3747 had recently found out that her sister was pregnant, only to also discover that the child was her husband's due to an affair they'd been having.
When the sister's life started to fall apart because her partner didn't want to stay with her, the Original Poster (OP) refused to help her get back on her feet.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for not helping my sister who became homeless just after she gave birth to her and my soon-to-be ex-husband's baby?"
The OP and her sister grew up very emotionally close.
"My sister (24 Female) and I (26 female) were really close our whole lives, and we moved away from our parents together when she was 18 and I was 20."
"I met my (soon to be) ex-husband here, and we got married, and my sister stayed close. We spent a lot of time together."
But then the OP's sister ruined everything by getting too close to the OP's husband.
"Then, a few months ago, I learned my sister was pregnant, and my husband was the father."
"I ended my marriage to him immediately, and I told my sister I wanted nothing more to do with her, and she was on her own. I had some of her stuff at my place and left it at my ex's place for her."
"For the rest of the pregnancy, they were living together."
"But then he wouldn't let her back in after the baby was born. She called our parents from the hospital and told them she had nowhere to go. She said that he was looking for custody and didn't want her back and that I wasn't answering her calls."
"They called me, and after I heard them explain what was going on, I told them it wasn't my problem. They tried to argue but I wasn't having any of it."
The OP's parents continued to try to convince her to take responsibility.
"She got a place at a shelter for single parents and she's still there several weeks later. With the custody dispute, she can't move back to our parents' house out-of-state, and I am still refusing to help her out."
"My parents are angry because I won't even take her calls or reply to any messages she's sent. I actually blocked her because I knew she wouldn't stop. My parents don't know that part."
"But they're telling me I should be ashamed of myself for turning my back on her and the baby. They think that her circumstances mean that I should put what she did aside. They're acting like I'm supposed to care more about what she's going through now than what she put me through."
"But that won't be happening. I told my parents I owed her and the baby nothing. I told them it was just a shame she didn't choke on his d**k when they were sleeping together behind my back."
"My parents called me disgusting for leaving them homeless. They think that I have room and should help."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
NTA: Not the A**hole
YTA: You're the A**hole
ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that it wasn't her responsibility to solve her sister's problems.
"NTA. Blood doesn't equal responsibility."
"The responsibility lies on the PARENTS, not the aunt, uncle, grandparents, strangers, etc."
"The dad is a bum. The mom is a bum."
"Grandparents should be sending her money to get into a hotel… Also, since she's homeless, she NEEDS TO GO HOME to her parents. Custody battle or not, she's going to lose the kid because she doesn't have a stable home for the kid."
"Why suffer in a shelter until then?"
"Consequences of one's actions." - herejusttoargue909
"This is a consequence of her betrayal, not your actions. Your sister shattered your trust and chose this path; you have no obligation to clean up the mess she made." - EsmeTidy
"Why aren't these AH parents taking in their cheating, lying, AH daughter in themselves?!"
"I'd go no contact with the lot of them. Forever."
"NTA, OP, but leave them in your MOUNTAIN of right dust." - Fuzzy_Laugh_1117
"Your parents are okay with finding out that your sister was screwing around with your husband, so much so that she got pregnant by him, and now that he doesn't want her, you're supposed to put it all behind you and help her out?!"
"Nope! Block them all, and keep them blocked. Not your circus!" - Upbeat_Vanilla_7285
"Okay, your sister can't stay with your parents because of the custody battle. Fair."
"But why can't your parents pay for an apartment or have family help out? Why does it have to be YOU?!"
"NTA! That's one crazy bleeping sister."
"NTA! Your parents don't want to deal with the situation and yet they want you to take on the responsibility to help?"
"NTA! No way!" - 01happynewyorker
"Your SISTER slept with your husband. It sounds like she intentionally got pregnant, too. Then she moved into YOUR house with YOUR husband."
"Was she trying to take over your life, and when it went tits up, she ran to you expecting you to forgive, forget, and PROVIDE for her and her baby?"
"Cut contact with ALL of them. You will never have any peace if they can contact you. NTA." - angelicak92
Others agreed and said the parents were close to needing to be blocked, too.
"NTA. Good job standing your ground and having boundaries. Your sister will figure her s**t out eventually, but that's not your concern."
"Your parents are on thin ice for trying to force you to help that backstabber." - ImAnNPCsoWhat
"Ask your father how he would feel if his brother f**ked his wife, got her pregnant, and then they moved in together? Ask your mom how she'd feel if her sister did the same."
"Ask them to explain it to each other, on the phone with you, and if you like their answers, THEN you will take her call (but of course you never will, do not take her call)." - waxedgood
"NTA, at all."
"Perhaps consider giving your parents a hard boundary… Tell your parents that while they may want to help their f**ked up daughter who cruelly devastated you and upended your life, that if they bring her up to you again, you will be ending the visit, hanging up, leaving wherever…"
"And then don't say this part, but refuse to answer their calls for a couple of weeks. After a couple of weeks, call them back and act like everything is fine. If they do it again, go a month or two before returning their calls… They will eventually learn you are serious… People don't respect your boundaries until you enforce them."
"Also, send in writing, certified mail to your sister, that you want no further contact from her and that if she continues to call, harass, come to your home, etc… you will be contacting the police, trespassing her, having her arrested if circumstances allow and if bad enough seeking a restraining order."
"Copy your parents. Even better if you can spend a couple hundred with a lawyer to have it sent on their letterhead."
"Scorched earth… what she did to you… go scorched earth. Not recoverable." - Hippy_Dippy_Gypsy
"They probably care more about their grandchild than anything else right now, and if your sister doesn't have a roof over her head then she's going to lose the kid to the father in a custody fight. Then your parents might never see their grandchild at all. It wouldn't surprise me if that is why they are acting like this right now."
"But that doesn't give them the right to betray you like this."
"You are doing the right thing by standing your ground after what your sister did to you. She's just reaping what she has sown." - Corodix
"I enjoy them saying you should be ashamed of yourself. My response would be that their previous darling should be ashamed of the fact she had sex with her sister's husband (I know siblings are meant to share, but I didn't realize that meant sharing the fun parts of their spouses)."
"Their previous darling happily shacked up with said husband, and only now wants something to do with you, not because she's sorry that betrayed you, but because she wants you to pay for her mistakes by taking her in, looking after her, and telling her that the man she destroyed your marriage and your relationship with her to f**k is such a meanie."
"Your parents should be ashamed that they're backing their husband-screwing, sibling-betraying child and expecting their betrayed child to just forget it all and help out."
"Would they like you to babysit the reminder of your sister's betrayal? Help her with a lawyer when you're likely still paying for your own lawyer to divorce the husband she slept with? Your sister didn't give a d**n about family loyalty when she was sleeping with your ex, so why would you owe her that same loyalty now?"
"If they care so much, let them bail her out. It's not your responsibility."
"H**l, I'd point out that they're shirking their parental and grandparental responsibilities by allowing their precious angel to be homeless, and they should be ashamed that they aren't doing everything in their power to help her. It doesn't matter that they live ages away, family helps family." - Buttered_Crumpet09
"NTA."
"You're in a no-win situation. Your family betrayed you. Your sister and ex-husband ruined your marriage. Your parents don't have your back."
"I'd go VERY low contact with your parents at the moment, if you want any contact at all."
"Write an email today, saying everything you want to say, why you're hurt, and how there's no easy solution, and why your relationship with them has changed. But don't send it yet."
"Then tonight, get as much sleep as you can, and then tomorrow morning, look back over the email, and if you still feel the same way, send it."
"When you hit 'send,' follow through with anything you said you would do in that email, like blocking or changing your phone number. You've been through a lot, and I wish you happiness." - HorrorLavishness9462
As much as the subReddit could empathize with the newborn baby, they respected the OP's boundaries and questioned what the parents were thinking, expecting the OP to care for the sister who betrayed her and had her soon-to-be ex-husband's baby.
Surely, the OP's parents could do something from afar, at least while the parents compete for custody of the child. Once the custody agreement was finalized, the sister had somewhere to go, and it wasn't the OP's house.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp