Sometimes people don't know when to quit, even after being asked to stop.
But does justify any response a person might have for them?
A woman turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback after a conflict with her sister.
PassengerForsaken793 asked:
"AITA for telling my sister she got what she deserved?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"So my sister (31, female) has been with her husband (30, male) for 8 years, married for 3."
"My sister and I (30, female) don't really get on very well; she has cheated on every single person she has ever been in a relationship with, and is very selfish and self centered. If something doesn't revolve around her, she throws a tantrum, and if something she does isn't solely for her benefit, she doesn't do it."
"She is ny sister, and I love her, but I try and avoid being around her as much as possible."
"However, her husband and I have been friends for years, as we were in the same year together at school. He's very different to my sister, and would give the shirt off his back if it would help someone."
"Her and her husband separated recently, as my sister had an affair with her husband's best friend of 25 years. Understandably, this crushed her husband, but he put on a brave face for the sake of their son and hopefully to co-parent civilly."
"I stayed out of it, didn't want to get sucked into the drama. I told both my sister and her husband that I hope they're okay and that was that."
"Recently my sister came to visit me."
"I've lived 200 miles away for 7 years and she's never once visited me before, even though she's been invited numerous times, and proceeded to rant about how the guy she is with now (the affair partner) has changed since they got together and that he doesn't do anything around the house, won't find a job, etc..."
"He was already unemployed when they started their affair. Now she wishes she'd just stayed with her husband, but when she told him that, he laughed at her and said he didn't want her back."
"I didn't want to hear it, and told her as much, but she kept going. After about an hour, I eventually just said 'well you should have thought about that before you started shagging someone else. You brought this on yourself'."
"My sister ended up leaving. My husband thinks what I said was fair enough, but my mum (who also had an affair on my father 20 years ago), thinks what I said was too harsh and it's clear she regrets her behaviour."
"My parents ended up formally separating about 6 months after my dad found out. They did try, but realised that they hated each other and no amout of pretending was going to change that."
"To this day, they still hate each other."
"So now I'm wondering, was what I said too harsh?"
The OP summed up why they might be the a**hole in their situation.
"I was very harsh with what I said and I'm wondering if I should have said nothing given my sister seems to regret her affair."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- INFO - more information needed
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"NTA. She doesn't regret her behavior. She doesn't like the consequences. She doesn't even seem to miss her ex-husband, just the things he used to do for her." ~ Impressive_Plate8529
"Exactly. She only misses the convenience of having him beside her. It was pure selfishness."
"And also what did your sister expect? It's such a joke that she wanted your sympathy after destroying her marriage. You only told her the truth that others won't say to her face. So NTA." ~ IceSeeker
"She doesn't regret her behavior, she's just mad he won't take her back. NTA." ~ NeedsItRough
"NTA. It looks like your mum is validating her own actions through your sister. She DID bring this upon herself. She made her bed, now she has to sleep in it." ~ Mapilean
"NTA. And your sister doesn't regret what happened. She regrets the outcome, because she's every bit as selfish as you said." ~ Gistradagis
"NTA. You mother is definitely an AH for siding with your sister."
"You are way too patient, as I would have said you got what you deserved after listening to her rant after five minutes." ~ EnFiPs
"NTA. Your mom is wrong. Your sister doesn't regret her behaviour - just the consequences of her behaviour."
"Note that it's only her affair partner's domestic behaviour and the way it makes her extra work that she doesn't like. She still hasn't expressed any personal remorse for the hurt caused to her ex-husband by her own wrong actions."
"Because here's the thing. Her affair partner hasn't changed since the affair started; she's just living with him full-time now. His lack of work ethic used to mean he was the 'fun f*ck buddy with time to play' while her husband was boring - but now she's living with him, that same lack of effort affects her directly, because she's not just visiting and he's still not a team player, so she has to pick up his slack in order to live comfortably."
"And she hasn't even broken up with him as a result. She's just...gone and whinged to her ex that it would be nice if he let her come back and pretend that the cheating didn't happen, because he's a better partner." ~ Normal-Height-8577
"NTA. She doesn't truly regret her behaviour because if she did she'd be the first to agree with what you said about how she has nobody to blame but herself, that's where there'd be some element of remorse and accountability on display."
"She's been cycling through the f*ck around and find out stages for a while by the sounds of it, but she'll cheat on her current partner too soon enough." ~ KJPicard24
"You're NTA. Most of us wouldn't have had the patience to listen to an hour's worth of whining like that. You added, 'my mum (who also had an affair on my father 20 years ago), thinks what I said was too harsh'."
"Yeah, of course the model for her behavior agrees with her." ~ Dittoheadforever
"NTA. Regretting your behaviour is doing it once and never doing it again. For her, she probably regrets the easy life she had with the husband. You were not harsh. It's the truth, and sadly for her, it isn't all warm and cuddly." ~ focus_fuel
"NTA, 'it's clear she regrets her behavior...' No, she regrets the consequences of her behavior. If she had ended up with a lawyer or doctor instead of a lazy bum, she wouldn't give the slightest crap about breaking her husband's heart." ~ Stealthy-J
"NTA. No way!!! Cheater mom defends cheater daughter!!! What an unexpected turn!!!" ~ Blacktxz
"Sister FA and FO. Now is pissed because her ex husband won't take her back. You were simply honest. She is now feeling the consequences for probably the first time." ~ helenfirebird
"I personally was about to say I commend your restraint. Your sister not only f*cked around and found out, she also wanted feedback on it from you."
"Genuinely, what was she expecting from you? 'Oh poor you, leaving a good man for a hobosexual. No one could have predicted all of this!'."
"It also tracks that your cheater mum would side with her serial cheater daughter. NTA." ~ Mewsiex
"You didn’t say anything that was untrue or said just to hurt."
"Your mother only is taking this tack because she knows the apple has not fallen far from her as the tree and does not want to address her own moral failures." ~ Odd-End-1405
"NTA! Good for you for calling out your sister’s sh*tty behaviour. Sounds like she absolutely needs to hear it, but unfortunately these people rarely take in the feedback and are always the professional victims despite being the perpetrator." ~ Efficient_Attitude31
"You just gave her the reality check she’s been dodging her whole life and honestly, if you win them how you lose them, she shouldn't be surprised her prize is a lazy cheater." ~ stargirldream
"NTA as she is a repeat offender and it was not just a random guy, it was her husband's best friend and it was seemingly not just a drunken one night stand, but a longer affair. '...and it's clear she regrets her behaviour'."
"And she might regret her behavior now, but for the wrong reasons. It just turned out her affair partner is not so great as a real partner. If he was, she likely would not regret her affair now."
"She only regrets the affair, as it is negatively affecting herself now. She doesn't seem sorry at all how she has hurt her husband and broken up her family." ~ opelan
Politely saying "FAFO" might not have been the kindest response to OP's sister's incessant whining about the situation she placed herself in, but it was effective.
Whether OP's sister wants to hear it or not, she's only suffering the consequences of her own actions.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp