Would you lie to cover for someone else's lies?
What if they're a family member? Does the lie make a difference in your decision?
A sibling dealing with a sister's lies turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subReddit for feedback.
AITAH is similar to AITA, but allows a wider variety of topics, doesn't have official voting acronyms, and doesn't tabulate a final judgment score.
Ok_Client3075 asked:
"AITAH for denying my sister's lies in front of her in laws?
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I am 25, female and have an older sister Kate (30, female). She and I were never close due to our age difference and because she hated that our dad married my mom and had me after divorcing her mother."
"Kate claims dad told her he never loved her mother, that my mom was his true love, that our dad always compared the 2 of us, asked her why she has to be a difficult child, and that overall dad loved me more."
"On the other hand, dad claims none of that is true, that she was very problematic and insolent. His version is backed up by my mother, our dad's parents, our paternal aunts and uncles, and our paternal cousins, so I assume Kate was never 100% honest and has always had some kind of conflict with our father's entire family."
"I only saw times when Kate claimed she was being financially abused because after she got suspended from school for smoking, our father wouldn't buy her something expensive she wanted. And when our father took away her car after she got caught driving under the influence."
"Kate calls that abuse and favoritism—even though I never got suspended or even a parking ticket. My father calls it punishment for breaking the rules."
"When Kate was 17, she called our grandma (dad's mother) an 'old, outdated f*cking hag' to her face. Why? Because grandma told her she couldn't wear a black T-shirt with a pentagram on it to our cousin's baptism ceremony. I was 12 when it happened, so I remember it clearly."
"Anyways, these are their problems that do not concern me. Their relationship with each other isn't my business."
"Some time ago, Kate reached out to me and told me she got engaged. I said congrats and everything."
"She told me she has a favour to ask. She told me her future mother-in-law (MIL) is very family oriented and it does not sit well with her that Kate is estranged from her family."
"In her words, future MIL considered something is also wrong with Kate and she is also to blame for being no contact with her family, fearing Kate will also influence her son to do the same thing."
"What Kate wanted from me was for me to meet her future in-laws for them to see she does not hate her family. I joked that future MIL sounds a little insane and I agreed to help her because at the end of the day, I never hated her and I don't think she hated me either."
"The fact we are not close does not mean we hate each other or want bad things to happen to the other one."
"Anyways, I went to meet Kate, her future husband and her future MIL and father-in-law (FIL) at a restaurant. They are very nice people and very warm."
"At some point, MIL said something along the lines that she is happy to see that the abuse we suffered did not affect our sisterly bond. I was confused and asked what abuse is she talking about while Kate tried to change the subject."
"MIL said it's OK, I have nothing to be ashamed of, and that she knows from Kate our parents abused us while growing up."
"I clarified that this is not true, we were never abused by our parents or anyone in our family, we were raised in a very loving family, we were never hit or spanked no matter what we did, our parents are well off so we always had everything that we wanted, clothes, phones, laptops, cars, etc..."
"MIL got very very angry. She apologised to me and started insulting my sister."
"She called her a liar, accused her of being manipulative and trying to insert herself into their family by being dishonest. What happened is that Kate accused our parents of many things that are not true to explain why she's no contact."
"Now Kate is accusing me of ruining her life. She says her engagement is over, the in-laws hate her, and her fiancé does not trust her anymore."
"The thing is, I don't think I did anything wrong. I cannot sit and hear people blasting my parents with her lies and for things that never happened."
"But still, AITAH for telling the truth?"
Some Redditors still weighed in by using the AITA judgment acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Those Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"Something here doesn't sit right with me. Why would the MIL bring up this subject abruptly at what was supposed to be a family dinner? Was MIL already preloaded with Kate's weirdness?"
But either way, Kate had no right to slander her parents to gain some pity points in front of fiancé and future in-laws. That's some very sixth standard bullsh*t. OP, as per the given info, you're NTA." ~ ConstructionNo9678
"100% agree with this. Kate FAFO. She never expected to have her lies trotted out, especially in front of someone who knows they were bald-faced lies."
"I hope you let your parents know exactly what happened, every detail. Cut that toxic liar out of your life."
"I wonder what she has said about you behind your back? NTA." ~ Liu1845
"Totally agree, Kate definitely FAFO. She didn't expect her lies to get exposed, especially in front of someone who knows the truth."
"Let your parents know what happened, and honestly, cutting her out might be the best move. Who knows what else she's said about you. You're NTA!" ~ ahnaofficial
"NTA. Kate lied herself into a corner and it's not up to OP to get her out of it by starting to lie too." ~ prwetty_mia
"NTA. Kate lied. You set the record straight. Kate ruined her own life. Sounds like she hasn't outgrown her need for attention and drama." ~ Substantialgood4102
"NTA. Kate made a decision to lie and then it bit her in the a**. Sounds like she made her bed and she can lie in it."
"Seriously though, how dumb is she? If she told her future MIL something that big, of course she would bring it up to you."
"And if Kate expected you to lie for her, she really is special. And not in the good way. In the eats paste way." ~ EfficientSociety73
The ones that skipped the voting acronym shared similar sentiments.
"I'd put money on the MIL already knowing Kate was full of sh*t to begin with and this just confirmed it for her. She probably caught her in other lies, saying things that just didn't add up, etc... That's why she was so blunt about it with OP."
"That was sorta mentioned in there somewhere, that Kate was less than truthful. How long would that existence last before they caught on anyway?"
"Then he moves on and she has another perceived betrayal to b*tch and moan about. OP telling the truth just made sure that no one wasted time on this."
"Maybe next relationship she can come at it more honestly." ~ Ok-Butterscotch-6432
"Kate did this to herself, and if she keeps hounding you, be sure to let her know that. That's if you decide to keep contact. If she's not afraid to lie about abuse to make herself the victim, what else will she lie about?" ~ WiseBat
"Whether Kate was actually abused or not, OP wasn't and had no reason to back up Kate's portrayal of them as two kids getting mutually abused."
"Frankly, if my sibling was telling people we were both abused when I knew I wasn't, it would cast doubt for me on whether they were, either." ~ Myrindyl
The OP provided a short update:
"She wrecked her relationship with her in-laws herself. All she had to do was tell the truth, not invent some sob story on how we were both abused during childhood."
"We were never abused, and I will not start saying I was just to cover up her lies. If you are the type of person to lie about these things, that's your problem, but I am not, and I will never be."
"After she calms down, I intend to have a conversation with her to understand what she expected to happen."
"What I assume is she never expected her MIL to be so blunt with me the first time we met, so her abuse lie could pass as true, and she could use it for why she would not invite her family to the wedding."
A conversation with her sister might not yield any answers, but at least OP and Kate will get a chance to say their piece.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp