Some people misunderstand that when a person steps away from an addiction, it doesn't suddenly fix everything. There's still a great deal of healing they have to go through.
And there will unfortunately be people who will judge them every step of the way, admitted the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor Technical_Run_2083 was appalled when she found out that her daughter-in-law had been uninvited from her brother's and future sister-in-law's wedding because of her past drinking.
When the bride refused to reinstate her invitation, the Original Poster (OP) did the best thing she knew to do: to step out of her position in the wedding, too.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for dropping out of my brother's wedding over what his fiancée said about my daughter-in-law (DIL)?"
The OP was excited to officiate her brother's wedding.
"I (54 Female) was supposed to officiate my brother Paul's (56 Male) wedding. He is getting married to Beth (49 Female) and she has been nice enough over the past 2 years. When they asked I was surprised but excited to be involved."
"Everything was going well until this issue with my son Ben (28 Male) and his wife Lucy (27 Female)."
"The backstory about Lucy. She and my son have been married for 2 years and have been together for 4. Lucy was also an alcoholic."
"Honestly, I would never have known but she had told the family before the wedding. She was sober before she met my son and there haven't been issues since she joined the family. She went to rehab when she was younger and has stayed away from alcohol since."
Not everyone was comfortable when they found out about Lucy's past.
"I had lunch with Ben, I mentioned the wedding and my son said they were no longer going after Beth uninvited Lucy from the wedding."
"This surprised me because they have gotten along so well before this."
"When I asked why, he said that she (the bride) had found out about Lucy's past drinking and banned her from the wedding, saying she no longer trusted her."
"This seemed out of character, so after lunch, I called her to get her side."
"Imagine my surprise that she said, 'I uninvited the wino.'"
"She went on to say that she was surprised we even let Lucy come to family events and that it wasn't safe to have her around others because according to her, alcoholics are not meant to be trusted."
The OP stood up for Lucy.
"I told her that Lucy was sober and has been for years."
"But she just said, 'That you know of. She's probably hiding it. Honestly, Ben should have left her when he found out but that was his mistake to learn.'"
"I told her I did not appreciate the slander against Lucy and told her I was also not going to be able to make it either."
"She freaked out and said that I was leaving them in a bind because they now had to find a new officiant (For the record, their wedding isn't until December)."
"I told her that unless Lucy can come, I'm not going either."
The family's feelings were divided.
"This has now spread to other family members and they are divided."
"My brother is mad and while he wishes Lucy could come, he thinks I should have respected his fiances' wishes."
"My son is happy, but Lucy now feels as though this whole thing is her fault and she would have just stayed away as asked."
"The rest of the family is split. Some think I'm making drama while others think she was being unfair."
"Lucy is like a daughter to me, but here other people's comment has made me think I was too hasty to drop out."
"AITA?"
"I've seen a few people ask, but Beth does have a bad history with alcoholics. Her parents were. I only found out from my brother afterward."
"He says that Lucy triggers Beth and he didn't tell her but it slipped out recently. She was fine with Lucy until she found out about her drinking problem."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some were appalled by Beth's comments about Lucy.
"Absolutely NTA. Beth's comments about Lucy are cruel and absurd."
"And, when it comes to 'family strategy' (sorry, it's the only phrase I can think of), which do you care more about? Your relationship with your son, his wife, and your potential future grandchildren, or your relationship with your SIL (sister-in-law)? I feel like you had no other logical choice than the one you made." - prefab4
"I don't know how big this wedding is going to be, but in my opinion, the odds are really high there'll be someone attending this wedding that's a recovering alcoholic."
"I'm so glad OP is standing by Lucy. Beth can call the shots at her wedding, but I hope she doesn't get a say in other family events. I feel bad for OP's brother because it's his wedding too, and he doesn't get a say." - Opposite-Employer-28
"It's because of people like you that people like Lucy are able to get better and stay better. It's because of you that your son and Lucy have a safe environment to be in."
"You are an absolute queen. You don't judge her, you welcomed her, and she is your family. Thank you for being the MIL (mother-in-law) we all wish for."
"NTA a million times over!!!" - Ok_Pumpkin174
"I am sympathetic to a degree, but Beth is blinded by this hate and at her age, I would expect it to be tempered by her knowledge of Lucy as a person and the life experience which comes with being her age."
"By Beth's reasoning, Lucy would be justified in hating Beth because Beth is genetically predisposed to alcoholism and thus may one day in the future present a risk to Lucy's sobriety."
"Both examples are unreasonable but it is on Beth to take responsibility for, and acknowledge the unfairness of Lucy paying for the sins of Beth's parents."
"It's made worse by Lucy now being rejected by a growing portion of her family. I suspect Beth is enjoying her new power to some degree because it justifies her extremism and she is not intrinsically aghast watching Lucy become a pariah."
"Such a sad and unnecessary situation." - Anseranas
"The thing is, OP's Beth HAS KNOWN Lucy for a couple of years already, and just recently found at that she had an alcohol problem (I assume in her early 20's, since she is 27 atm, and has been with her husband for 4 years of which 2 years married and they have never seen her drunk)."
"(And trust me, when an alcoholic starts drinking again, you'll definitely find out. Perhaps not in the beginning, but they rarely can keep it hidden. I've seen multiple examples and it always came to light.)"
"People make mistakes, but to me, it is obvious that Lucy learned from it, was completely honest about it, and has been wonderful to her husband and OP's family for as long as they've known her. So to suddenly not trust her, just based on something from her past that she has under control, is just ridiculous." - AhniJetal
Others said it wasn't Lucy's fault that Beth was triggered by her past.
"It's only absurd or delusional to speak this way to someone who hasn't lived with an alcoholic that constantly relapsed."
"It sucks, but she's probably can't see past her own experiences with alcoholics and can't comprehend that all alcoholics aren't like the one she's dealt with in the past."
"I still think she's an a**hole by the way (Beth, not OP). I just totally can see why she's reacting the way she is." - Circle_Breaker
"Wow, what a sad sad individual she must be to hold a grudge against ALL people who have or had a drinking problem. She needs therapy to get over that shit. She can't BLAME everyone else around her for the shit her parents did." - AlbatrossSenior7107
"If Lucy, who's sober, triggers Beth because she's a recovered alcoholic... then BETH needs therapy. Sounds like Lucy has put in her work. Good for the OP for standing on the side of right." - Glad_Belt_1176
"My dad was an alcoholic, so was his wife (second wife). Growing up with him was awful, he was a bully and an a**hole and it got worse when he was drinking. I had issues with being around others who were drinking for a long time and I still rarely drink."
"I hold no grudge or ill-will towards other alcoholics, particularly those who are in, or working on, their recovery. In my last job, I worked with people diagnosed with mental illness and substance use disorder. No issues, no triggers, no concerns for me at all." - Western_Compote_4461
"It's not always that a person is holding a grudge."
"It's that the thing is triggering for them & they have no control around that."
"But OP, NTA."
"Future new SIL is a person projecting misconceived, maladaptive issues on an alcoholic in long time recovery." - No_Appointment_7232
"So sick of hearing people abuse the word 'trigger' in place of 'this makes me upset.' I have PTSD. I have triggers that can send me into panic attacks, flashbacks, and a week of hypervigilance. It's MY job to manage them and my reaction, I don't get to be a jerk to other people over it."
"Mental health issues aren't people fault, but they are their responsibility. Beth needs a reality check, not sympathy." - Revolutionary-Yak-47
After reading through the comments, the OP shared a thankful update.
"Reading your comments supporting Lucy has been reaffirming. I feel for my brother and Beth to an extent but I'm glad I'm not a jerk like I thought."
"Reading all of you talking about your recovering journeys has been lovely and this mama bear is proud of every single one of you."
"I am concerned about the slander that's been going around about Lucy that I've heard from other relatives."
"I'm going to call Paul and ask that they stop. Not sure how that is going to go. I haven't talked to him since right after our fight."
While the OP wondered if she was wrong after stepping away from officiating her brother's wedding, the subReddit thought it was wonderful that she was staying in her daughter-in-law's corner, which is a rare sighting on the AITA subReddit.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp