I am the very proud father of three children, and an uncle to a fourth.
They are an endless font of delight, wonderment and frustration.
Quite rudely, the children have refused to stay at their previous adorable ages and have grown without regard to either my, or my wife's feelings.
Rude.
So, what do we do when the daughter we doted on suddenly is dressing in revealing outfits or the son doesn't want to listen to dad's advice anymore?
That was the problem facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) NoLikePicture when he came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for some outside thoughts.
He asked:
"AITA for telling my daughter that I find her pictures inappropriate?"
He began with the basics.
"My wife and I have 3 daughters: 24, 21, and 18."
"They are the only 4 people I follow on Instagram."
"The only reason I even have an Instagram is because that's where my daughters post most of their pictures. I only go on it every few months and that's just to binge like all of my daughters' recent picture posts."
Everything was fine until,
"Since last year, however, my daughter 21 has been posting pictures of herself in different attires that I find inappropriate."
"(Emphasis on I - because I see what the young women are wearing these days, so what I find inappropriate you may find mild.)"
"There was only one conversation we had where I asked why the sudden change in attire and she replied that, that was her new style."
"I said oh okay and sometime later, I quietly unfollowed her because I didn't want to keep seeing those types of pictures of her on my homepage."
"I would get on Instagram, binge-like my other two daughter's pictures, and get off."
"My daughter called me earlier and she was upset because she noticed I had unfollowed her and that I was liking her sister's pictures and not hers."
"I was surprised that she even cared because my daughters have quite a number of followers and likes on their pictures from their friends and other family members."
"I told her that I unfollowed because I found the pictures she posted there quite inappropriate. And I pointed out that I still hearted the pictures that she put on Facebook."
"She said that if the way she was dressing bothered me I should have said something."
"I told her that I didn't want to say anything because she was an adult and that my opinion shouldn't affect the way she dressed."
"And that just because I found her pictures inappropriate didn't mean that I loved her any less. I just didn't want to see them."
"My daughter hung up very upset and my wife angrily said that I shouldn't have said that I found our daughter's pictures 'inappropriate' and that I should call back and apologize..."
"No. Absolutely not."
"At that point I was just tired and fed up, I told my wife I'm done with this whole thing and walked away."
OP was left to wonder.
"My wife is still upset so I wonder if I did something to make me TA."
"Tl;dr - My daughter is upset that I didn't tell her that I found her pictures inappropriate. My wife is upset that I told our daughter that her pictures were inappropriate."
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for some outside opinions.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: NTA
Some were impressed with how he handled the situation.
"NTA - I think you handled it very tactfully."
"You did what you needed to stop seeing her pictures and you also didn't stifle her freedom and let her do what she wants." ~ lumpthefoff
Others came to daughter's defense.
"I mean, daughter almost seems more hurt that he didn't come to her about it than anything."
"If she has a good relationship with him she may still want his input on things like that." ~ Outrageous-Runner
And,
"What did the daughter do?"
"She noticed her dad not following her... She asked him why... She told him he should have told her if it bothered him... And she hung up upset..."
"Nothing about that is bad behavior???"
"The phone call didn't start off with her being mad about him finding her outfit inappropriate, she didn't know this."
"She noticed her dad not following her... So she cares about her dad???"
"She asked him why he didn't say anything... So she cares about his opinion???"
"And this is all new info to her, so of course she's upset???"
"She wasn't the one saying he shouldn't have found her outfits inappropriate, she asked him why he didn't say anything."
"She's not doing anything bad here..." ~ DreamsOfWishes
While there were many who felt OP was in an unfair position.
"Pretty much no-win for him, though. If he said something, he's too controlling. If he didn't, apparently that's wrong too." ~ Retlifon
Or,
"On top of that instead of making it a big deal he just quietly unfollows her because he knows his opinion isn't needed because daughter should dress however she wants but he was uncomfortable seeing those pictures."
"Honestly it sounds like they were at least mildly provocative if thirst trappy?"
"Which I can 100% understand how that can be uncomfortable for a parent."
"My Dad, who on the other hand is an a**hole who has said so many hurtful things to myself and others? We don't have a relationship anymore."
"I finally told him I didn't want to hear his opinion anymore."
"((This one was racist comment about Muslims.))"
"We haven't spoken in 4 years since I finally stood my ground."
"Funny how it wasn't me I was standing up for after 30+ years of criticism, it was for other people."
"And the straw that broke the camel's back instead of for myself."
"OP handled this with grace and à kindly as he could when she brought it up."
"While she may be upset about it, he still couldn't have done anything better."
"Kinda weird that she is checking her Dad's likes out though." ~ CeelaChathArrna
For some, the argument was a logical one.
"Exactly, it doesn't matter if he's her father."
"If we look at it objectively, does anyone need to justify their actions to someone if they unfollow them?"
"Is she going to question every single person who unfollows her or doesn't like her photos?" ~
lumpthefoff
Some felt the situation could have been avoided with better communication.
"I think just changing the wording may have helped."
"Inappropriate implies judgment (which OP was not trying to do)."
"I think that if he explained to her as it was uncomfortable to see his daughter in her new style."
"He didn't want to make her feel judged or like her attire was wrong, so he unfollowed her."
"There are definitely clothes dads don't want to see thier daughters in."
"He acknowledged that it was his issue and did not do anything to make the daughter feel bad."
"I honestly think this was the best way to handle things." ~ Conscious_Ad_9785
And,
"NAH, but I think you need to sit and really talk to your daughter."
"I think it's great that you respect your daughter enough to try not to meddle in her choices regarding her body. And the way you handled the instagram situation is more mature than most people on the internet."
"That said, judging by how she reacted to the fact that you didn't talk to her first, I think she feels hurt that you didn't try to communicate your feelings to her."
"Sounds to me that she might value your opinion more than you might realize."
"Maybe try to meet up for coffee and hash things out."
"Ask her how she would have felt had you talked to her about this first, and ask how you both can communicate better going forward." ~ Fluid_Response_6062
There was even an explanation of how the situation could have unfolded differently.
"NTA. If we play out the situation the way that your daughter claims to have wanted:"
"OP: Why the sudden change in attire?"
"Daughter: That's my new style"
"OP: I don't like it, I feel like it's inappropriate"
"Daughter: That's none of your business"
"OP: Well, I just don't want to see it"
"Daughter: I'm an adult, I'm not going to change my style for you"
"OP: Ok, I'll just stop following you"
"Daughter: So this is an ultimatum? I need to dress the way you want me to or else you don't want to see me?"
"OP: I still want to see you, just not those pictures with you in inappropriate outfits"
"Daughter: I'm going on AITA and asking the internet what they think about a father giving an ultimatum to his grown daughter about dressing in perfectly reasonable outfits"
"Redditors: Your dad is afraid of women's sexuality and is an AH for trying to control your behavior with an ultimatum"
"Look, I strongly believe that people should have the right to dress how they want. But part of freedom of expression is the fact that some people will not approve."
"And what I have always said to people who do not approve of images (admittedly, usually images on TV or in art galleries) is simply: If you don't like it, don't look" ~ DinaFelice
Time moves forward despite our best efforts to stop it.
We have to accept that our children grow just as we did, and - just as the father in this piece did - we need to accept that they are not who they were, and set our own boundaries accordingly.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp