Grief has so many facets.
It is an ongoing and harrowing process.
A person's grief can crush relationships.
So how do loved ones of a grieving person cope?
Redditor Independent-Web5498 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback, so naturally, she came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
She asked:
"AITA for telling my sister not to come to my wedding if she kept bringing up her miscarriage?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"3 years ago, my younger sister Jen had a miscarriage at 9 weeks."
"She and her partner, Scott, were devastated."
"I was there for them as much as I could be, but it was a tough time for them."
"A few months later, Scott left Jen: Jen said it was because of the miscarriage."
"She and Scott had a close-knit group of friends, and I found it odd no one had checked on her, so I rang her best friend to suggest a girl's night."
"She told me the reason they had broken up: Jen had slept with someone else."
"When he confronted her, she blamed the miscarriage."
"9 months ago, I got engaged and asked Jen to be my M{aid] O[f] H[onor]."
"At our engagement party, Jen became inconsolable at seeing our friend's baby."
"Everyone's focus - including mine - was on Jen all night."
"I wasn't upset with her: I figured that she was imagining what all these big family events would be like with a baby, so I gave her grace."
"Since then, anything to do with the wedding, she brings up her miscarriage - but only at events related to my wedding."
"I asked her to help me pick flowers, and she lost it when she saw baby blue roses (she's convinced she was having a boy) and we had to leave."
"When we went wedding dress shopping, she picked out a maternity bridesmaid dress and asked to try it on so that she could see how she would have looked."
"When she did that, I thought, 'she's actually lost it,' and had to walk away when she started stuffing a cushion up her dress."
"I have tried to talk to her about going to counselling again, but she is insisting this is a normal part of the grieving process.'
"She planned my hen party, which I was so grateful for, but I found out after she'd sent everyone a list of rules which included no talking about pregnancy or kids; no wearing baby blue, etc etc."
"I confronted her, but I was gentle about it: I suggested counseling again and said I was there for her, but also that if she wanted to impose any other 'rules' on anything to do with my wedding, she had to come to me first."
"It all came to a head when one of my friends and bridesmaids announced she was pregnant (she will be 7 months at the wedding)."
"After the announcement, Jen called her and said it would be best if she didn't come because she couldn't 'maintain her peace' if she was forced to be reminded of the loss of her child."
"I LOST it when I found out and said she was using her miscarriage to get attention, and if she made one more demand, or made a single comment about it at anything wedding-related, she was uninvited, and in either case, she is no longer my MOH."
"Since then, Jen has told everyone I've dumped her from the wedding for being too upset about the loss of her baby."
"In retaliation, I told everyone and anyone who would listen the real reason she and Scott broke up."
"Half our friends and family think I'm an a**hole, half think she is."
"I'm still horrifically angry, and stuck in a place where I'm not sure if I'm rightly angry or if I should be more understanding."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So... AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question, AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A**hole.
"Totally with you."
"A miscarriage is devastating, but being that sensitive after 3 years is something else."
"As you say, miscarriages before 12 weeks are really common."
"It's such a taboo topic and needs to be talked about more."
"Some people don't even realise they are pregnant at that point." ~ Forkyou
"More people need to talk about miscarriages and the nature of them - that it's literally biologically natural to have a miscarriage."
"While it's sad, and people deal with them in different ways, your point of saying that it's a woman's body, 'taking care of something that is not viable' is completely accurate."
"We are still animals at the end of it all, and nature taking its course is inevitable sometimes." ~ OverThinkingHo25
"I have had 5 miscarriages."
"I was aware and knew what was happening each time."
"I still joyfully celebrate those who are pregnant because I am thrilled they do not have to go through what I have."
"My trauma should have no bearing on another's happy moment."
"Those who know me are gentle and check in."
"My sister told me she was pregnant privately before making an announcement at a family gathering, so I would have time to process instead of being stunned in a group, which I didn't expect, and would have been nothing but thrilled and overjoyed in the moment had it been a surprise, but appreciated the forethought and consideration." ~ Time_Care_102
"I have suffered a lot of loss in the last two decades and usually fall into the 'you can't tell people how to grieve' camp because grief is weird and complicated and different for everyone and every relationship."
"However, I am 100% with you."
"If the sister can't even handle seeing the color baby blue, she should have excused herself from MOH duties and gotten therapy yesterday."
"Just because you are having a hard time does not mean that those around you must accommodate you."
"You should be self-aware enough to excuse yourself from situations where you know you can't handle being there without making it about you." ~ bug1402
"Agreed with this and I'd say go ahead and uninvite your sister from the wedding - she rejects the idea of more therapy because she knows what she's doing is unhealthy, but doesn't want to stop."
"If she can't make it through a dress fitting without making it all about her, she's not going to let your wedding happen smoothly."
"I would expect her to be crying loudly every time she sees your bridesmaid, which includes during your vows." ~ SafetyFluid8535
"NTA. She needs some major therapy."
"She lost a baby she was barely pregnant with 3 years ago."
"Not that the loss will go away, but the fact that everything in her life is run by it is not at all healthy."
"She needs to do some serious unpacking of the amount of loss surrounding the baby and her relationship... ASAP." ~ Rabt_FTS
"It's been three years, AND she was 9 weeks, which means she only knew about the pregnancy for tops 3 weeks."
"While that can be emotional, this is NOT the same as carrying to say 4-5 months and losing the pregnancy."
"9 weeks sucks if you were excited to be pregnant, but is not this level of loss she is pretending to feel for attention any time she needs it.'
"After 3 years."
"That's actual crazy behavior."
"Honestly, it's offensive to those who have lost pregnancies that were much further along."
"That STILL don't act like this."
"She found what she thinks is a catch-all attention-getting and act however I want excuse because if you mention miscarriage, people back off."
"I'm glad OP has said enough is enough."
"Sister is either in dire need of intense mental health care, or needs a reality check."
"Or both. NTA." ~ anneofred
"NTA- I had twins stillborn at five months."
"I made it out to the other side by the skin of my teeth."
"She is being ridiculous at best; we don't get to trauma dump and steal other people's joy."
"And if she can't handle seeing your friend pregnant, then she doesn't go."
"There was a family baptism soon after I lost my girls."
"I quietly didn't go, gave my sincere regrets, and everyone understood." ~ Puzzled452
OP came back with updates and edits...
"A couple of people have said I went too far for telling people about the reasons why she broke up with Scott."
"And I can take that, but just for context, I had multiple people reach out to me, who she had spoken to first."
"Each essentially said I was being a b**** for dumping her from the wedding for having a miscarriage and said something along the lines of 'she's lost her partner and her sister because she lost her baby.'"
"I felt I needed to correct them that she actually lost neither of us, because of the miscarriage, she lost us because of her actions since, and her blaming the miscarriage is part of a pattern of behavior."
"I didn't go into details: just said 'actually she lost Scott because she cheated on him, and she lost me because she uninvited one of my bridesmaids, without my knowing, because she is pregnant."
"I was upset and hurt that they were saying this to me, and also that she wanted everyone to think I was the sort of person who would dump my sister because she lost a baby, so I lashed out by telling them what actually happened with Scott."
"I suppose as a way to defend myself."
"But again: if the consensus is that this was too far, I'll accept that and take it on the chin."
"Thanks for the feedback, everyone: someone mentioned the phrase 'weaponized grief,' and seeing that written down, that's what it feels like."
"She clearly didn't deal with her grief at the time she had the miscarriage, but I'm surprised that it's presented itself now in the way that it has. "
"Part of me wonders if she's seeing me get married and thinking it should have been her and Scott: perhaps her feelings of guilt over what she did, and not dealing with her grief, have caused her to have some form of mental break?"
"I'm not sure, but I'm glad to see the consensus seems to be I was right to set the boundaries I did."
"This gives me some measure of peace as we get closer to the wedding, although if it comes to it and she is not there, I will still be absolutely devastated."
Reddit has your back. OP, glad that you know it.
As sad as your sister's situation is, she can not behave this way.
She may need serious help mentally, but it is not your responsibility to see that she gets it.
You deserve to be happy during this time.
Hopefully, this can all get resolved.
But don't sacrifice your joy over it.
Good Luck and Congratulations!!!
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp