There are wild stories all over the internet of two people falling madly in love, getting married, and even having children together before they discover that they're related. All they can do after that is make a huge, heartbreaking decision.
It stands to reason that people would want to play it safe now and get a DNA test, so they don't potentially go through the same thing, reasoned the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
But Redditor Organic-Draft6504 didn't see what the big concern was about getting a DNA test, despite the fact that his future wife was adopted and worried about the possibility of being related.
When she continued to insist, the Original Poster (OP) wondered if there was anything he could do to appease his future bride without taking the test.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for refusing to take a DNA test to confirm my fiancée and I are not related because I'm uncomfortable sharing my DNA with big business?"
The OP's fiancée was worried about who she was related to.
"My (27 Male) fiancée (26 Female) is adopted. She was adopted at birth and hasn't had any contact with her birth family."
"She read an article a few months ago about a married couple who were both adopted and found out they were biological siblings six years into their marriage."
"Now, she's worried that might be us, even though I was not adopted."
The OP didn't agree with her concerns.
"I've explained to her over and over again that my parents have been faithful to each other, so there is no way we are siblings."
"She still wants us to get tested in case there is an uncle or other relative of mine that slept around (she knows her birth mother was a sex worker and our families lived in the same major city)."
"I think she's being ridiculous. I don't want to waste $200 on us getting tested. I don't want to have my DNA sitting in some database where it can be hacked into."
"I also don't want my data sitting on a website where anyone 'connected to my tree' can find me. It weirds me out."
The OP also didn't want to uncover his fiancée's past.
"I told her I wasn't comfortable with her getting tested either because who knows what skeletons her biological family has in the closet."
"I don't want her to find out she's related to bad people and then be upset."
"I also don't want half of my future kids' genetic makeup sitting in some 'confidential' corporate database."
His fiancée was not happy with the OP's reasoning.
"I told her all of this, but she still brings it up."
"I may have crossed a line today when I told her she was being disrespectful of my family by indicating one of them may have abandoned their child."
"She started crying and left."
"She's not answering any of my phone calls or texts, and her sister is calling me an a**hole for saying mean things about her biological family."
"As far as I'm concerned, they abandoned her, so they are dead to me, and I don't owe them any respect."
"On the other hand, they are genetically related to her, so maybe by proxy, I'm calling her a deadbeat, too?"
"I still don't want either of us to do the test, but I have a feeling this isn't going to blow over."
"AITA if I continue standing firm and refuse to get tested?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some were perplexed by the OP's apathy toward his fiancée's feelings.
"OP, please please please learn this lesson now. It may not be a big deal to you, and it may even seem kind of silly to you. But things that are a big deal to your partner should be treated like a big deal."
"You should give a sh*t. Treating something that is a big deal to her that seems silly to you like it's a big deal will show her that you give a sh*t about her."
"That's not to say that you give in to everything she wants, and I understand why you don't want to do a 23 and Me test, but just listen, please." - BelkiraHoTep
"OP was, apparently, just giving a flat, absolute NO, and dismissing her concerns. So no, that's not going to trigger a problem-solving, 'let's see if there's another way,' from the other person in the, let's be polite and say 'discussion.' Unfortunate, but true."
"I'm really not in favor of DNA ancestry testing for curiosity's sake. It can lead to discoveries that were better left sleeping."
"But in this case, I'm sorry, but his fiance's mother was a sex worker. There is a non-zero chance that they could be related. Tiny, but not zero."
"And that's not something you want to find out later if a major medical problem for one of their possible kids makes testing necessary."
"OP is wrong." - Ornery-Ad-4818
"I'm very, VERY opposed to giving my DNA to a corporate website, but OP's other reasons are maddening. 'Too expensive' and 'not wanting to deal with her emotions' should not be on the list of his issues with getting DNA testing done. $200 is not that much, especially if you look at it as part of the wedding expenses."
"His reasons for not wanting her to get a test are really sad/controlling/selfish as well. 'I don't want to support her if she gets bad news' is not a great sentiment to begin married life. OP is really showing he doesn't value her enough to spend the bare minimum financially or emotionally. OP's response should make his fiancée question his commitment to her."
"Relatedly: 'My parents never cheated.' OP really has no idea if that is true or not and he certainly can't vouch for what all of his aunts/uncles/grandparents were up to."
"Sure, the chances are low that they are related, but it happens enough, and having a huge blackhole about your own origins makes these kinds of things really loom large in your thinking. It is a small price to pay for peace of mind, but apparently too high a price for OP." - Corpuscular_Ocelot
"Like disregarding him getting a DNA test... he doesn't want her to get one because of his children having their info stored somewhere. Right now, his future children don't have a family history at ALL, and neither does she."
"He wants to marry and have kids with this woman but has purposely stayed ignorant to the additional anxiety that being adopted can add to starting a family. I'm not adopted or dating an adopted person, and I'm aware of it, but he can't even care enough to Google more info?" - Current_Read_7808
Others pointed out that having a DNA comparison would be no big deal.
"YTA… Dude, you could just go to your medical provider, explain the situation and have them run a comparison. It's really not rocket science, and the results don't need to be stored or skeletons unearthed, but it is an easy way to get the answer your future wife is after and settle her mind."
"As to the reasoning for the doc: We are thinking of having children, and there is a valid concern that we are related. Please have our DNA compared." - Calm_Inky
"The fiancée should have been respectful of OP's reservations and found alternative ways of finding this out." - Alien_lifeform_666
"OP also objected to her getting her own DNA tested in case she's related to 'bad people.' She shouldn't pressure him to get tested, but it's not his decision what she does with her DNA." - liver-flipper
"I was very curious if OP and his fiancé planned on kids, even though that is apparently not relevant to either of their motivations here. What if the fiancé is a carrier for something so devastating, it makes more sense for her not to have kids than to risk her kids having it?"
"There are also a ton of genetic conditions that make childbirth too dangerous for people to seriously consider it. What if the fiancé has one of those?"
"Are bio kids a dealbreaker in their relationship? If they're engaged, surely they have talked about this (maybe putting too much faith in people here…). If so, it would be foolish and irresponsible to get married before checking if bio kids are even a realistic option for the fiancé."
"Even if they don't think of it as a dealbreaker now, that might change if they find out for a fact bio kids are off the table. She needs to go to a doctor and get genetic counseling of some sort." - harmcharm77
The subReddit was left shaking their heads over this one, wondering why it was such a big deal for the OP to do something preventatively rather than retrospectively.
It also would be a clear indicator to his wife that he cared for her and the things that were important to her, rather than trying to silence her concerns as the OP's post suggested.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp