Maintaining a good relationship with your ex-spouse following a divorce can be challenging.
As seeing them can remind you of all the painful memories that led to your splitting up.
Parents who choose to divorce, however, try to stay cordial if only for the sake of their children.
Sometimes, however, remaining on friendly terms simply isn't possible, no matter how hard you might try.
Redditor Birgit_Kraft and his wife went through a fairly challenging divorce.
Not helped by a rather intense legal battle, the original poster (OP)'s ex-wife put him through.
Indeed, their relationship proved to be so hostile that the OP refused to help his ex-wife when she found herself in a very vulnerable position.
Having regrets upon his behavior on reflection, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole' (AITA), where he asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for refusing to take my ex-wife to the ER?"
The OP explained he was looking back at a particular moment in his divorce with a fair amount of regret and doubt:
"This incident occurred a decade ago, but recently came up in conversation with my oldest son, who was 7 at the time."
"While I believed I was justified in the moment, over the years I have come to the conclusion that I am not proud of my actions that day."
"My son maintains that I did the right thing."
"Six months prior to the incident, my wife and I had agreed to divorce after her extra-marital activities came to light."
"We agreed on everything except who would keep the house."
"I told her that unless she took over the mortgage and utilities that I would not be leaving."
"Two months prior, when it was evident that I was staying put, she made a play to remove me from the home, and had me served with a 2-week TRO."
"Caught off guard, I rented a room with a coworker in the neighborhood and hired a lawyer."
"I followed all the rules, went to court, answered all of the judge's questions, and the TRO was revoked."
"After 3 weeks I was back in my house and she was angrier than ever."
"I'm including this background only because it explains my combative state of mind during the event."
"Two weeks prior, I took my kids out of state to visit family for Christmas and New Years."
"I asked Amy, my soon-to-be-ex-wife to shovel the walk and porch stairs while we were away."
"She didn't, and upon our return there was 2 inches of ice on the stairs and sidewalk."
"The day after we returned, Amy had arranged to meet up with a craigslister to buy a piece of furniture for the house she had rented."
"She was going with her friend Lisa, who had also set up a CL purchase of her own."
"When Lisa pulled into the driveway, Amy hurriedly ran out the door, slipped on the icy porch steps, and landed on a ceramic planter, cutting her hand open."
"It wasn't a life or death situation, but there was blood and she did need stitches."
"She came back in, freaking out. I told her to go wrap it up and have Lisa take her to the ER. Meanwhile, Lisa had come up to the door to see what the commotion was about."
"I told Lisa that she needed to take Amy to the ER. Lisa said she wasn't going to blow off her CL meetup, and that I should take her."
"I said that ER visits weren't part of my role any more."
"Lisa accused me of acting abusively."
"I sarcastically asked her why she would want to leave her friend dependent on her abuser."
"Ultimately, Lisa left for her meetup, and I packed up the kids and dropped off Amy at the ER."
"I let her find her own way home."
"We owned only manual cars, and her injury would have made her unable to shift gears."
"If you had asked me the next day, I would have said I acted righteously and that Lisa should have stepped up for her friend."
"With the clarity of time, I feel that I should have swallowed my pride and better demonstrated for my kids how a father should act."
"Lay it on me."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community resoundingly agreed that the OP was not the a**hole for refusing to bring Amy to the hospital.
Everyone agreed that after everything Amy put the OP through, he was under no obligation to help her, especially considering her accident could have been completely avoided had she done what she was asked and shoveled the driveway.
"LOL lay WHAT on you?!"
"You did what you were asked, albeit begrudgingly (totally allowed) and went on your way."
"She set herself up for that."
"NTA."
"When someone cheats on you, a divorce is granted and a marriage is terminated- any obligations are nixed."
"You can be nice, be civil, but be for you and your kids... she has Lisa."- DCpurpleTart33
"NTA."
"But NTA just covers what you're not, with no indication of what you are."
"The older, wiser version of you has realized what it takes to be good."- CommanderCosgrove
"There is so much FAFO in this story and none of it is on you."
"Why didn't she shovel?"
"She wanted to get injured?"
"Wish granted."
"Cheat on your hubs, he might not take care of you any longer."
"Friend was probably helping her cheat."
"Here is another example of how devoid of moral character she is."
"Your friend is bleeding, but let me go hook up with a CL rando or pick up some mismatched furniture that's a decade old?"
"Nah you good."
"NTA."- ChaoticCapricorn
"NTA."
"That being said, I think that Lisa was a sh*tty friend and a sh*tty person."- mpurdey12
"So your ex wife refused to clear the walkway and her friend needed a trip to the ER because of it."
"You're NTA, but your ex sure as hell is."- WabbitCZEN
"NTA."
"And you did demonstrate well for your kids."
"That day you showed your kids how to be kind to someone, even if they have hurt you and you feel like they don't deserve it, while keeping yourself safe from getting hurt again."
"Kindness with boundaries is probably one of the hardest lessons to learn."
"You helped her by taking her to the ER, even though the whole situation was on her."
"You had no obligation to do- that's the part where you showed kindness."
"The boundaries- you tried to say no."
"Previously she had to make some accusations about you to get that TRO and she clearly had made statements to her friend along the same lines if Lisa is throwing out the abuser line to you."
"Between those things, the cheating, and everything else you are describing, you had clear evidence that this woman was not to be trusted at that time."
"Getting in a car with her was a risk."
"Staying at the ER with her would also have been a risk."
"You may not have done this purposefully to protect yourself, but some part of you was probably acting in self-preservation even if you didn't realize it."- Agirlandherrobot
"NTA buddy."
"Your ex treated you poorly - and frankly I'm not inclined to be outwardly nice and let myself get walked all over by somebody who treats me poorly either."
"If, say, you and your ex split because it simply wasn't working out, and there wasn't hostility towards you, maybe you would have been TA."
"But she was treating you aggressively and brought that upon herself."
"Ultimately, she made poor decisions."
"She got hurt."
"You made sure it wasn't a 'this needs to be taken care of immediately or she will bleed out/die' situation and then went 'there's someone else here who can be responsible for you, you probably should ask them to take you to the ER'."
"If nothing else, you were protecting yourself from more initial claims of abuse or harassment by not taking her - because it would have been more time spent 'alone with her' or whatever."
"Not wanting to out yourself in that situation isn't unreasonable at all."
"When you realized the alternative wasn't a capable or willing option, you begrudgingly agreed."
"What you modeled for your son, in my opinion, is this: 'sometimes people can treat you really poorly and it's okay to stand up for yourself and set boundaries with them to prevent further mistreatment'."
"'Despite that, there are times where you should make a hard decision to treat someone with basic respect and kindness when necessary, even if they don't fully deserve it, and it's still okay to set personal boundaries and not over-extend yourself in those circumstances, too'."
"That's probably one of the best lessons you could have taught your son at any age."
"There's a time and a place to protect yourself, but even people who hurt us are still human and should be treated with basic respect."
"Basically, good job dude."- kimar2z
The fact that the OP continues to feel guilty down the line shows that he does, indeed, still worry about Amy.
When it doesn't seem that Amy cares remotely about the OP any more.
Amy's lack of judgement or compassion is further exemplified by the fact that Lisa was more concerned about meeting someone she met on Craigslist than her friend's health and safety.
One can only hope that Amy has grown up over the passing years, and also regrets some of the choices she made following this divorce.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp