It's fair to say that if parents were to catch their teenage child cheating on one of their first romantic partners, they would be disappointed in them and might even discipline them in some way for it.
But when the child is literally a young child, the expectations around any "romantic" relationship will look quite different, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor EfficientAd4006 was pleased to see her daughter developing friendships and even having a "boyfriend" at the age of seven.
But when her daughter didn't stay with the same boy for very long, the Original Poster (OP) was surprised to see her husband become angry about their daughter's faithfulness.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for not punishing my seven-year-old daughter for her play-relationships?"
The OP's daughter recently had her first childhood relationship.
"My husband and I have a seven-year-old daughter together, Layla."
"A few months ago, Layla got a 'boyfriend,' Lucas. They are both seven, so it's obviously not a real relationship. They just hold hands sometimes and they drew each other hearts for Valentine's Day."
But the relationship was over as quickly as it started.
"This week, Layla was apparently holding hands with another boy, who also sent Layla a Valentine's Day love letter."
"Lucas took offense to it."
"We found out because Lucas' parents called to tell us Lucas won't be coming over to us this Saturday like it was originally planned because he is mad at Layla."
The OP was surprised to see her husband's reaction to this.
"My husband wants us to punish Layla and wants me to have a talk with her about faithfulness."
"At first, I thought he was joking, but no, he was serious."
"He says that Layla cheated on Lucas and I, as her mother, should do something about it."
"I told my husband that Layla is seven, not a cheater, and I won't treat her as such."
"He then accused me of 'raising a cheater' and encouraging her bad behavior."
"AITA for not wanting to punish Layla?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some agreed with the OP and didn't think the daughter needed to be punished for this.
"She's seven. It's ridiculous to call her a 'cheater.'"
"At the same time, you can sit her down and explain why Lucas is upset and doesn't want to see her. That's more than enough of a lesson."
"NTA." - Gr4nd45
"I would definitely suggest that she does both. This can be an important lesson for Layla about the feelings of others which is so important as she develops her own understanding of empathy and the consequences of her behaviors."
"On the other hand, it's also extremely important that OP talks to her husband to ask why he seems to be so triggered by the situation. OP better handle this now and put the husband in check before Layla is a teen and is navigating more serious relationships." - VenusXo12
"What a missed opportunity."
"Lucas's parents could explain about different types of love and most definitely help walk him through the obvious jealousy."
"Younger relationships are such a great time to learn to walk through our emotions. My stepdaughter is barely a teen and in middle school. She's battling insecurity of her first boyfriend being so popular and is afraid he might get stolen."
"It's hard for her to understand he's not something that can be stolen. Or worth her time if he doesn't value her. (He is a very sweet boy, but him spending time with anyone else gives her anxiety.)"
"At seven, OP's daughter can learn that Lucas's feelings were hurt by her actions. But punishing her and telling her a cheater is crazy." - PolyPolyam
"I would argue that explaining to her husband that his misogyny will not be tolerated should take priority... because if he has some gripes with women or cheating, he needs to deal with them in therapy, not project them on his seven-year-old daughter."
"This strikes me as a man who will shame her in the future for how she dresses, telling her she's inviting any harassment she gets, etc."
"This is why it's extremely important for women to fully vet the men they plan on procreating with. because otherwise, this s**t will keep getting passed on to future generations." - addangel
"I thought about this for a while, I'm all about recognizing anyone's feelings and why we're upset, but it also felt so wrong to explain a seven-year-old about committed relationships and cheating, they can't fully grasp the concept of a romantic relationship."
"So it came to my mind: it's not on you and her, it's on the boy and his family! He shouldn't have to possess behavior and feel like he could 'demand' anything."
"While it may be a good idea to talk to your daughter about why he is upset and, if possible, tell her very clearly how important and right and good it is to set up boundaries whenever she feels it. But also has to accept others, but I honestly don't know what exactly a child-appropriate explanation for this would look like. ESH except you and your daughter." - Kaythekid
Others were more concerned about calling this a "relationship" at all.
"These children are seven, why are we encouraging 'boyfriend' relationships among seven-year-olds?"
"This is exactly why you don't, because they are too small for concepts like faithfulness and infidelity. Kids change who their best friends are that young on trivial things like who has a cooler lunchbox."
"It's not that deep, even if someone got hurt. I'd stop encouraging the use of language like boyfriend and girlfriend and just stick to friends."
"Don't tell me both parents didn't encourage this, either."
"Your husband is also horrifically wrong for wanting to 'punish' her. Y'all need to have a deep conversation about gender roles, cause if he is saying stuff like this now, I cannot imagine when she is a teenager."
"You should speak to your daughter about kindness and empathy for Lucas's feelings, and maybe lay off encouraging 'relationships' and focus on inclusive friendships. They are kids."
"ESH." - HappyHalloqueen
"ESH. These kids are seven years old. She doesn't have a 'boyfriend,' she has a friend. Seven-year-old friends hold hands."
"You, your husband, and Lucas' parents need to stop being creepy and let your kids be kids." - LowCal-Calzone-Zone
"He might have been mad she's hanging out with another boy in the general kid sense of 'that's my friend!' Seven is old enough to get jealous of another attention or time going to someone else and wanted to skip the date in take-my-ball-home fashion."
"An adult relayed the information to OP about cheating and might be projecting or adding their own incel nonsense to little kid drama. They are the ones who either would have told Lucas about 'cheating' or are using the term on their own." - onmyfifthcupofcoffee
"NTA. But it's good to sit your little ones down and just talk about how their actions affect others' feelings and why he feels hurt."
"But for one, she shouldn't be made to feel like can only have one friend... this is not a punishment situation, and being punished could lead to her thinking she could hurt a friend's feelings just by playing with another friend."
"But, for two, talking to a seven-year-old about 'being faithful' to her 'boyfriend' is setting a super gross precedent and adding a much more adult role than should ever be put into this situation. A 'relationship' at that age is not that." - TinyGreenTurtles
"This isn't about faithfulness and cheating. This is about a very common dynamic among children: jealousy and exclusion. Leaving someone out, which engenders jealous responses."
"Kid antics emerge in various directions, the boyfriend and girlfriend language isn't the point. Explain to Layla that Lucas is feeling jealous. This isn't because she's done anything wrong, it's a natural feeling people need to learn to contend with, and that often comes from feeling excluded or unvalued."
"Perhaps consider encouraging her to be inclusive of Lucas, rather than pursuing friendship dynamics that are just about two friends at once. It'd be nice if Lucas's parents were having that same conversation with him."
"Layla should *not* be getting the message (as a seven-year-old girl) that it's her job to make the men around her comfortable and happy. She should be getting the message that friends care about each other and try to include one another."
"Definitely don't micromanage young people dynamics." - Soft_Two989
While the subReddit could understand why Lucas's parents were upset that their son's feelings were hurt, they felt that there must be a much better way to go about this, so that the right message was sent to both children, and so that more empathetic exchanges than this could occur in the future.
The OP's daughter could learn at the age of seven that her actions have consequences, which include hurting other people's feelings. Since Lucas was one of her friends, his feelings would likely matter to her, so she would want to consider his feelings in the future.
However, holding hands with another friend was hardly something that she should be penalized for, let alone in the context of an adult relationship she was a literal decade away from experiencing.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp