It may be 2023, but debates about menstruation and feminine hygiene are still a common occurrence.
Some have attempted to argue for a woman's right to describe and diagnose the symptoms of her own period. But there are still those who think they know more about a woman's body than the woman does, cringed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor Dawn_In_Danger was surprised to see her brother-in-law's reaction to her starting her period while at his home.
But when her period caused a serious argument about what she could acceptably do while on her period, the Original Poster (OP) was beyond furious.
She asked the sub:
"AITA for leaving when my BIL (Brother-in-Law) wouldn't let me in the hot tub?"
The OP and her husband went to see her brother-in-law's new place.
"My BIL just bought a new house. He lives about four hours from us."
"Last weekend, my husband and I went to visit him for a few days and see the house for the first time."
There was a small incident during the visit.
"Long story short, I got my period while I was sleeping and the guest room sheets had a small bloodstain (about the size of a quarter)."
"My husband helped me strip the bed, and I went down to the laundry room to pretreat and then wash the sheets."
"When they were done, the bloodstain was 100% gone, but when we told BIL (he asked why we were using the dryer), he looked completely disgusted."
"He inspected the sheets super closely for a very long time and finally, I was like, 'Je**s, BIL, if you're looking that closely and can't find a stain, can't you trust me that I got it out?'"
"He seemed really put out by the whole thing."
The OP's brother-in-law took what happened harder than the OP would have expected.
"That night, we had plans to hang out in BIL's hot tub in the backyard, but after dinner, he told me that I wasn't allowed in the hot tub because of my period."
"I was shocked and explained that the nighttime leak was because I hadn't been expecting my period and had been fast asleep all night."
"I explained that it was perfectly safe and sanitary for me to put in a tampon and sit in the hot tub for an hour."
"But he wouldn't budge."
"My husband had my back and told him that he was being ridiculous, and it ended up turning into a big argument."
The couple decided they'd had enough of the brother-in-law's opinion.
"Eventually, my husband and I decided to pack our stuff and stay at a nearby hotel, and then we drove home the next morning."
"Now BIL is p**sed at us for leaving and for not respecting his home."
"He also Venmo-requested my husband $100 for new sheets, which he is refusing to pay (but trust that if the stain hadn't come out, we would've been happy to replace them)."
"He told his whole side of the family, who've decided to fully stay out of it (I wish they had our backs more, but at least they're not piling onto us)."
"Are my husband and I AHes for leaving and not paying for the sheets?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some agreed with the OP that the brother-in-law was misinformed.
"Some parents apparently do a really bad job teaching their sons about women's periods. It's a normal, routine biological function."
"BIL's disgust is ignorant and misogynistic. It'd be bad in a 13-year-old boy, but in an adult, it's simply gross. He's a bad host and a bad person."
"NTA, OP. At least you got the good brother." - Curious-One4595
"NTA. The BIL is such a horrific misogynist. I'm only a trans woman, so I can't claim to understand fully what it's like to be on your period, but what I do know is that it is out of your control. And the stuff that was in your control, like cleaning up, was done correctly."
"If you left it stained, I could understand him getting angry, but you cleaned up, and honestly, I think if you had it in the hot tub, it would've been much easier to clean. When will people learn that periods are a natural occurrence and stop demonizing people for having them?"
"Kudos to your husband for sticking up for you. Usually, the complaints come from the husband, so it's a nice change of pace." - Jackninja5
"The thing is though, I'm fairly clueless about how periods and tampons work. I'm a dude, and it doesn't factor into my day-to-day routine (what a #blessed life)."
"So know what I would do in that situation? Trust the grown woman who does deal with them regularly that whatever action she is comfortable with is the one to go with. She's the guest in my home, and she's happy? Then it's all cool."
"It's super simple stuff." - Boulder1983
"NTA. I suppose there's an argument to be made about the sheets if the strain hadn't come out. But this definitely feels more like an 'Ew, women are gross. Stop being gross,' sort of tantrum." - BigBayesian
"I still can't believe that in 2023, some people react this way to periods. Even as a teen, I truly never ever understood these types of reactions to menstruations (or let's say, people being grossed out or legit angry at women with hairy legs??)."
"Periods happen and have always happened every month to half of the population. Honestly, I'm more puzzled than angry about this topic. I'd gladly empty my menstrual cup in BIL's face, lol (laughing out loud)." - ysekh
"Just in case it's not abundantly clear, you are NTA."
"Thank you for not putting up with his nonsense. He can be a pr**k in his own home all he wants, but good on you for not internalizing the shame or staying and apologizing. It is hard not to just placate in the face of anger sometimes. His behavior was immature and ignorant."
"Also, why do so many AHs think provoking someone who has JUST proven they can quickly and efficiently remove blood evidence is a good idea…? Purely from a self-preservation standpoint, maybe don't do that." - AugustNClementine
But others challenged the OP for disclosing her period and trying to get in the hot tub at all.
"YTA. It is gross to come into contact with period blood, especially if he's not your SO. Clear YTA." - Alacran_durango
"YTA."
"PERIOD blood is grotesque. If you had an accident, it would be disgusting. If you know your body so well, why did the accident happen?"
"Also, why did you have to tell your BIL? That's weird to discuss your period with the entire family." - Cleaver-Tower612
"YTA. Ewww. I'm a woman, and even I wouldn't go into my own hot tub while on my period."
"As tens of millions of women can attest to, periods are unpredictable, despite wearing a tampon. It doesn't matter how well you know your situation. It's a no. No, I'm not a prude, just sensible to not wanting to do extra cleaning of the tub."
"Now, the sheet thing makes the BIL the AH." - pleetis4181
"YTA. I am a woman, and once I was at the beach with my husband and children. My period started, so I put on a tampon and sat down. Playing in the water puddle that the kids dug up. I still leaked into the pool even though I had on my correct size tampon, and no, it was not soaked or on for too long."
"Your BIL is right. His house, his rules. If he felt that it would be unhygienic, let him, because I felt that it was unhygienic for me to continue to sit and a water puddle when I could clearly see pink-tinged water because of my tampon. He set a boundary and hoped that you would respect it." - Trying2BBetter2023
"YTA if for nothing else then not respecting the rules at someone else's house." - Speeddemon12344
After receiving feedback, the OP shared a few clarifications and an update.
"For everyone asking why I even told him, it's because my period isn't a dirty little secret. It's a natural thing that happens to half of the adult population. And because I'm not going to sneak around like a cat burglar to do laundry. He heard the dryer buzz and asked about it, and I told him."
"BIL has a girlfriend who doesn't live with him. She hung out with us the first night (that was the first time I'd met her) but had to work the night of the argument, so she wasn't around. I don't know what she thinks of the whole situation, and I'm not going to reach out about it."
"And BIL isn't on the spectrum, he doesn't have OCD, and he's not a germophobe. He just thinks it's gross."
"Anyway, please trust that I know my body and my flow and that on the first full day of my period, I know I can wear a tampon for a while without leaking."
"For the record, we did go to the hotel hot tub after we checked in, and I stayed in for 90 minutes. When I got out, there was nary a speck of evil dirty vagina blood on my bathing suit."
The subReddit was thoroughly divided on this one, based on hosting someone and personal feelings about menstruation. Some thought the OP was wrong to insist to use an amenity in someone else's home or to continue to insist after one accident had already happened.
But most sided with the OP, citing facts about menstruation and the unlikelihood of something happening in the hot tub.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp