It's no secret that romantic couples are physically intimate, and that this fact is often a key factor in their relationship.
But the rest of us don't necessarily need to be reminded of this fact by being able to overhear them, cringed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor Agreeable-Ad-8113 thought it would be fine to be with his wife when they were both in the mood, despite the fact that his brother-in-law was staying with them.
But when his brother-in-law and additional family members complained about the incident, the Original Poster (OP) wondered if he and his wife had somehow been inconsiderate.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for my wife's brother hearing us do it?"
The OP's brother-in-law recently visited their home.
"My wife (25 Female) and I (26 Male) live by ourselves in an apartment."
"Her brother (30s Male) is visiting from out of town."
He did not appreciate their activities while he was visiting.
"One night, my wife and I got a bit frisky and started having sex."
"Her brother heard from our spare room and decided to complain to her parents that we were being too loud and not taking his feelings into consideration."
The family got involved.
"Her parents sided with him and are giving us a whole lot of grief because he overheard us."
"After this, I said he can f**k off and stay with his parents while he's here because it's my house and I'll do whatever I want in my house."
"My wife thinks I'm overreacting and we should just not do it while he's here."
"Am I the a**hole?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some didn't think it was that hard to be quiet or wait until the brother-in-law (BIL) leaves.
"YTA. It's the polite thing to do to f**k quietly when guests are in the house."
"Would you do the same if your parents were in the spare room? Grandparents? What about young nieces and nephews?"
"Think a little. He didn't need to hear you and his sister boning. It's not like he's staying in town indefinitely." - liquiditygentleman
"YTA. Yes, it's your house, but he was a guest in the house, as well as being family of your wife, and you should feel very embarrassed about the situation."
"In addition, he is a member of the family, so it's gross if you have no issue with him hearing you or her."
"Your wife is correct that you are overreacting, and yes, you shouldn't do it loudly if he's around."
"It's not like he will always be there, he's only visiting and doesn't live there, so you should be able to have some self-control for such a short amount of time."
"You probably would hate to be in his position yourself, so why put someone else through that? YTA." - stargazingartist
"YTA, I really don't understand when people just can't be considerate. How hard is it to not f**k for a couple of nights or just one night? Like, come on." - Silver_Advantage_536
"Look... kinda YTA. I get it's your home, and you can do what you'd like, blah blah blah, but 'don't f**k loud enough to disturb your guest' isn't an unreasonable ask."
"And listening to your siblings have sex is an uncomfortable situation for both siblings, so it's no wonder your wife isn't enthusiastic about having sex, knowing her brother can hear her." - Wrong-Construction40
"I don't know why I'm shocked that people seem to think it's okay to loudly f**k while you have guests just because it's 'your house.' Do y'all really have that much trouble abstaining for a day or two?"
"Maybe brother didn't need to run to his parents, but y'all can keep your hands to yourself while you have guests. YTA." - fluffyoustewart
"ESH. He should have communicated his concerns more effectively. Out of the two of you, though, you're more TA. Having a guest should entail being a good host, and therefore adjusting your normal behavior for the comfort of your guest(s)."
"While you shouldn't have to abstain from sex while he's there and you're in your own room, being aware of how loud you are shouldn't be an unreasonable ask." - ea77271
"I wonder how far the 'it's my house, and I can do what I want' ideology goes."
"Would you be all naked in front of your BIL? Why not? It's your f**king house. It's your house, you can do what you want, and if he doesn't like it, he can leave."
"You're being an inconsiderate jerk and a petulant child all at once. You're basically taking your ball and going home by telling him to d**k off."
"Be a considerate host. Quiet down your f**king, or wait a couple of days until he goes. YTA." - dirkMcdirkenson
"ESH."
"One of the things about being an adult and having sex is being aware of your surroundings and who you might be sharing a space with. You stated that you did nothing to mitigate any noise, so in that sense, you and your wife suck."
"However, adults have sex, and that's a fact of life. Your BIL had multiple choices to consider before running to his parents."
"These include turning on a TV, using headphones, or the wild thought of accepting that married people have sex and mentioning that he can hear you. So you can then make adjustments."
"There is no way that it's reasonable to ask you to refrain from sex with your wife in the privacy of your own bedroom."
"Asking you to keep the noise down is a reasonable request." - A-typ-self
Others were angry about the brother-in-law (BIL) involving the parents over this.
"Normally, I'd go for esh because if you have a guest, it's not the worst thing to be mindful of volume. And he does need to respect your marriage and that you can do what you want in your home."
"However, you get a resounding NTA, because he got the parents involved. What he should have done was cringe (as any sibling would), get out his headphones, and approach you politely the next day to ask about you toning it down. But he didn't."
"NTA. Do not let Little Boy Blue-balls cramp your style because he's jealous y'all have each other for freaky fun times, and he's solo."
"Or he's at least solo on this trip, as OP doesn't mention an SO staying in their guest room, too. Although if he's b***hing to mommy and daddy about his sister's bedroom affairs, I'm going to guess the dude is single." - thimbleful_of_f**ks
"ESH. OP is definitely overreacting to what happened, but I understand why he would be since BIL definitely escalated by deciding to tell the in-laws and complain instead of just casually mentioning something the next morning and politely asking them to keep it down or something."
"I'd let him know that wasn't cool and ask him to bring any further complaints to you or your wife directly."
"You should also respect that there is someone else in your house who doesn't want to hear that and at least try to keep it down or abstain while he's right in the other room." - amp_ro
"NTA."
"What is the brother, twelve?"
"It's none of his business what you do. He can just tolerate it. And it's especially none of your mother-in-law's business. He shouldn't be complaining to her about it."
"Maybe he should sleep out in the graveyard or someplace." - AntelopeOld8683
"I'm somewhere between NTA and ESH. You should have kept it quiet to be a polite host, sure. But, it is YOUR home."
"Per the comments, BIL is a 30-year-old man. Him calling to complain to his parents is such a childish and immature way of handling this situation that it tilts the scale, to me, in your favor." - Gramslamurai
"NTA."
"He complained to his parents!! He's an adult... you and his sister are adults, and you live together. Surely he knows that there's sex happening."
"I assume it wasn't an all-out session that lasted hours and kept him awake half the night. Tell him to grow up... buy earplugs or listen to music, etc."
"He told on his sister! That's the funniest thing. He needs to go stay with his mommy." - deathandtaxes2023
"If you aren't paying someone for your stay, then you have to adhere to whatever their household norm is as long as it's not illegal."
"Sorry, that's how life works. Yes, staying with your mid-20s sister who is with someone in their mid-20s involves the risk of hearing them have sex. Is that really that farfetched?"
"I bet the brother learned a lesson that day he won't forget. You can't stay with someone for free and ask the hosts to not have sex. That's weird and, frankly, a clear beggar trying to be a chooser."
"The mooch should've stayed at a hotel." - diputs-era-uoy
While the subReddit could concede that the OP was in his own home and should be able to do what he wishes in that space, many felt that a little consideration would go a long way. Even observing the volume, or creating competing noise with the TV, would have made a difference.
Because at the end of the day, the guest was also family, and family hearing other family members' intimate moments cannot be the most enjoyable for anyone.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp