As much as we would all like to get along with everyone, we're bound to have negative experiences with some people.
And those experiences sometimes can leave a serious mark, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
But Redditor CellProfessional8375 had no idea how bothered his wife would be by their new nanny, who she'd known in high school.
When it began to impact their relationship, the Original Poster (OP) realized there was more to their relationship.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for arguing with my wife and refusing to fire the nanny?"
The OP needed to hire a nanny after accepting a promotion.
"I (30s Male) live with my wife (30s Female). We both work full-time jobs and have three kids, ages three, six, and seven."
"I used to work from home with flexible hours, but I've been offered a promotion that requires me to go to work in person. The pay increase is really significant, so my wife and I agreed I should take the promotion and hire a part-time nanny for our kids."
"I got in touch with a nanny agency and they matched us with someone who lives locally. They only told us her first name, which was a really common name anyway, but for the sake of storytelling, we'll say her name's Sarah."
Hiring Sarah as a nanny quickly became complicated.
"I spoke to Sarah on the phone and she seemed really nice. We arranged a day for her to come over and meet my wife and the kids and for us to show her around the house."
"When the day came around and we met her, it turned out that my wife already knew Sarah. It was really awkward. I wasn't sure how they knew each other until afterward."
"My wife told me that back when she was in high school, her boyfriend at the time cheated on her with Sarah who was in her class."
"She wasn't enthusiastic about it but my wife didn't seem to have a problem with Sarah being our nanny at first. Our kids love her, she has lots of experience and she's available when we need her."
"They have other part-time nannies but they all have waiting lists. We were on a waiting list for a while to get Sarah in the first place."
But the OP didn't realize how complicated it was until later.
"After a couple of weeks with pretty much no issues, my two oldest kids came to me and said that they don't want Sarah to come back."
"I asked them why, and they said she was 'evil.'"
"I ask why they thought she was evil, and our six-year-old starts crying and says that Sarah is mean and wants to hurt mommy."
"I talked to my wife in private, and at first, she said she had no idea what the kids were talking about and that it must be because of something Sarah did."
"When I pressed it, my wife admitted that she told the kids that Sarah is evil."
The OP's wife wanted to go in a new direction with the nanny situation.
"She said she knows it was a ridiculous plan, but she was hoping I'd fire her. My wife asked me to fire the nanny because their history makes her uncomfortable."
"I asked why it wasn't an issue before."
"My wife said she just needed to think about it, and she's decided Sarah has to go."
"I told my wife that we can find another nanny, but until then, there was no reason to get rid of Sarah, and that she was out of line for trying to weaponize the kids against her when Sarah is no danger to them."
"My wife disagreed and said that we need to just fire Sarah ASAP and hire a temporary babysitter until we can find another nanny."
"She said that she wasn't weaponizing the kids; she was just setting boundaries."
"This turned into a really heated argument, and I called my wife insecure and controlling and told her she needs to go to therapy."
"My wife said I'm being inconsiderate of her feelings and need to put myself in her shoes."
"This was one of our biggest arguments in a very long time, and I just want a neutral opinion on whether I was wrong."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some found both the OP and his wife to be at fault in this situation.
"ESH. Your wife shouldn't be talking s**t about Sarah to your kids, but you also shouldn't be insisting that Sarah remain hired. There are plenty of other people who I'm sure would be equally as nice and fun as Sarah, with the added bonus that this one won't have a painful beef with your wife." - boredennium
"ESH."
"OP, this is just ridiculous. Your wife was way out of line to say that to the kids and try to use them like that, and it sounds like she did some actual (hopefully just temporary) emotional damage in doing so."
"But she's right that Sarah needs to go immediately. Why the h**l would you want to keep your wife in a clearly uncomfortable position, much less continue to keep your KIDS in this situation?"
"Keeping Sarah around for a couple of weeks more just because you don't want to bother finding someone to fill in until you and your wife find a permanent replacement is a terrible idea, and it shows your wife and kids you don't give a sh*t about their feelings. Save your kids and your marriage (and Sarah, frankly) any more clusterf**k exposure." - randomomnsuburbia
"I wonder if the wife was okay with hiring the nanny just so she could fire her. Revenge, of sorts."
"Clearly, the woman should never have been hired by OP and his wife. This was a disaster waiting to happen. OP's wife should never have used the kids in her revenge, and OP should have never hired the woman that cheated with his wife's ex-boyfriend. Duh."
"OP: save your marriage and replace the nanny with one that has morals and doesn't sleep with men that are taken, and encourage your wife to grow up. And she needs to apologize to the kids." - Didisaythatoutloud72
"OP probably shouldn't have gone through with hiring the nanny once the wife said it was her ex's AP, even if she said it was fine. There are too many fish in the sea, so to speak. I wouldn't say that makes him an a**hole, just naive, really."
"Now that the cat's out of the bag and the bag's in the river, the best possible solution is keeping Sarah on until they can find a new nanny. H**l, if they were placed with Sarah through an agency, a simple phone call could likely solve this in relatively short order."
"A parade of babysitters isn't going to be best for the kids, and the more people you introduce, the more likely you'll end up introducing a non-savory person."
"Where OP's wife crossed the line into YTA was coaching the children to lie about Sarah. I'd be terrified she's even capable of this. It's analogous to parental alienation. What happens if they end up divorcing? Wife's already shown a willingness to engage in alienation techniques, including coaching the children." - GodspeedandGoodnight
"NTA."
"Your wife's behavior is so over the top. I have to agree with you. She needs therapy. If she just needed time to think about it, she should have come to you and been honest."
"Instead, she tried to poison the children against a nanny that they liked in an attempt to manipulate you, through the children, into firing her. That's just mental."
"You shouldn't insist that Sarah remain hired. Your wife has ruined any chance of Sarah continuing to be effective in her position."
"I would call the agency and explain that you need a replacement nanny due to personal history with Sarah that has nothing to do with her abilities as a nanny. Give them as much info as they need so that this doesn't taint Sarah's ability to find alternative placement with another family. That would make you a partner to your wife's cruelty." - myhairs0nfire2
But others were specifically upset with the wife for scaring her kids.
"I'm sorry, my sympathies for the wife left the moment she decided to manipulate her children into perceiving a woman as evil rather than be an adult and properly communicate to her husband the issue."
"ESH, but she is on the top of the 'they all suck' list." - Environmental_Tank_4
"Yeah, it might be kinda traumatic for a child when their mother says someone is evil and then proceeds to leave the child alone with them all day. Someone who they previously liked and trusted. The mom pulled some serious manipulation there on kids old enough to be impacted by it." - Maleficient_Mouse1
"She was also weaponizing boundaries. That's not how boundaries work. We set boundaries for ourselves, for ex: I won't ever let a man talk down to me, so I break up with him if he ever thinks to get to that point."
"It's not using the kids to and manipulating the situation to get Sarah out of the house. She should have had a talk with him from the beginning. OP also should have let go of Sarah because it clearly bothered his wife." - snakpakkid
"The wife comes across as so unhinged, manipulating the kids, I have to roll my eyes at people calling OP an AH. His mistake was trusting his wife had moved on from high school drama." - pastrypuffcream
"If you ever get divorced, this is a preview of your future. Weaponizing children is incredibly traumatizing to them! Now, even if they keep the nanny for a few weeks until a replacement is hired, the kids will be mistrustful and afraid of a caregiver that they had a good relationship with! All because mom is toxic AF."
"I wouldn't doubt that she thought she could get revenge by hiring and then firing the nanny. It's a s**tty thing to do mainly because it's hard for the kids to have to change caregivers like this."
"Mom needs some therapy. Holding a grudge this many years later over something s**tty the nanny did as a dumb teenager lacks a lot of maturity." - PlanningMyEscape
The subReddit could understand why the OP's wife would not want to associate with someone from high school, but they didn't appreciate how she handled the situation. The nanny shouldn't have been hired in the first place, but now that she has been, it was time to find a suitable replacement.
And soon.
Best of luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp