We are in very sensitive times at the moment.
We are finally having difficult conversations surrounding our society and all of its flaws.
But are we having the right conversations?
And are we having them with nuance?
Where is the line between helping and hurting?
Case in point...
Redditor Sensitive-Ant-5907 wanted to discuss her story for some feedback. So naturally she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for not correcting my daughter when she says she is just like Mulan because she is white?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My 8 year old daughter is autistic and her favorite Disney princess is Mulan."
"Ever since she was little she was completely obsessed with her and whenever we asked why she was her favorite (besides the obvious that Mulan is a bad-ass hero)."
"She would always say how her and Mulan are just a like and she likes how Mulan 'never knew what she was doing either.'"
"This is in reference to the beginning of the film before Mulan went off to war in disguise when Mulan sings the first 2 songs."
"And at first she seems a bit out of sync with everyone else and the 2nd is Reflection where she sings about feeling the need to 'fit in' and how she doesn't think people will like the real her."
"My daughter has always struggled with making friends and fitting in with the other kids at school."
"So Mulan's journey of eventually finding her path really sticks with her."
"That being said I can understand how it can sound when my daughter, who is not Chinese or of Asian decent, says that her and Mulan are 'just alike.'"
"But because I know the context I didn't see anything wrong with her wording it like that."
"However, I took my daughter on a play date with one of my co-workers and her daughter and the subject of Disney princesses came up."
"My daughter of course used the opportunity to talk about her love for Mulan and their similarities and my co-worker gave me a funny look."
"After the 2 girls went off to play my co-worker asked why I allow my daughter to say things like that when it is obviously offensive."
"I explained the context behind my daughters words, and my co-worker said that I shouldn't let my daughter word it as such because others will find it offensive."
"I tried to explain how policing my young autistic daughter's words and insinuating that she was somehow being bad by saying them could affect her."
"She already struggles to communicate her feelings to us so the fact she was even able to explain her feelings about her identity to us with words is a major accomplishment for her."
"For additional context: my co-worker is also white, and I say this not to mean that white people can't call out other white people for being racist, but just to establish that I wasn't trying to argue with someone about their own valid feelings about their culture and ethnicity."
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA?:
- Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors declared our OP was NOT the A**hole.
It's a tricky situation.
Let's hear some thoughts...
"NTA. As a black woman, I know lots of 'well intentioned' white folks like your coworker."
"She's white-knighting to make herself feel better."
"Mulan resonates with lots of people (myself included) for exactly the reasons your daughter describes."
"It's actually an amazing attribute that your daughter sees past race and culture to truly understand someone and emphasize with them."
"Your coworker is not as intelligent as your daughter." ~ Evolutioncocktail
"When I was growing up, my friend 'Ariel' was in a car accident and had to relearn how to walk."
"She had green casts on her legs."
"She went around telling people she was a mermaid and was OBSESSED with the Little Mermaid Movies."
"People (adults mostly) gave her shit because she was Indian."
"Not that 'Ariel' cared, but it really upset her when adults would do that."
"They didn't understand an 11-year-old, in a wheelchair, might actually find comfort in a movie about someone who gets their legs and finds love."
"It was pathetic to take that away from someone." ~ BuffySteakHouse
"Skimming the post I was assuming the daughter had actually done something offensive like pull her eyes or did a fake accent."
"I did a double take really confused as to what was going on and had to re read because OP's kid's reasons are articulate, sensible and super relatable."
"I genuinely couldn't figure out at first what the woman was complaining about and suggesting could be offensive."
"She sounds like she's just trying to get her ally cookie more than actually perpetuate anti-racism."
"That or she's one of those people that's so over obsessed with the idea of non-BIPOC's being the real oppressed ones and the true potential victims."
"So she's just aghast that another white mom also isn't immediately shutting down her kid to protect them in a politically correct world."
"In case you can't tell I'm a little too familiar with that brand of person."
"Like the one that's reading white fragility in public places but at home fear watches a lot of Laura Ingraham and thinks Meghan McCain always really has a point." ~ MountainBean3479
"I'm a trans dude and Mulan has always been my favorite princess due to her trials of having to pass as another gender to get by."
"Which is what I had to do for the first 27 years of my life!"
"Make A Man Out Of You is one of my favorite Disney songs." ~ Zzz__tired__zzZ
"Yes imagine someone telling your daughter "no honey you can't pretend to be Elsa, Ariel, etc... because you're not white you're obviously a princess Tianna.'"
"This is the problem."
"So many people taking things way too far with the white knighting these are kids they see the world how we all should."
"I remember when we had to have a conversation about race with my daughter (we are white btw) following George Floyd and the protest."
"She was 7 and literally unaware of 'race.'"
"Maybe our fault for not discussing earlier but she was so pure in her confusion."
"She was asking about white and black people."
"We told her she was white and her friend "A" at school was black."
"She got super mad and said... no she was peach color and her friend was brown 😂."
"r/technicallythetruth."
"My point is kids are pure and are the future."
"Let them idolize who they want and stop trying to make everything into some damn social justice discussion about appropriation or what not."
"They see their similarities white adults trying to point out the differences" ~ electricman420
"NTA. I just knew as soon as she told the story that it was going to be a white person saying that."
"Imagine someone who has actually experienced prejudice in their lives thinking this is somehow offensive."
"The fact that the daughter focused in on traits of Mulan that are universal human emotions and experiences, and not her physical appearance."
"Speaks very well of the daughter and how OP has raised her." ~ MattJFarrell
"As an Asian-American, I agree that OP is NTA."
"It makes me more uncomfortable that the coworker immediately thinks it's offensive just in the context of race."
"Why is that the initial reaction?"
"Why can't people just see past that and admire the actual character who is a person that is more than her race?"
"The coworker does sound like she has a white savior complex."
"And that makes me more uncomfortable to be around." ~ jesuisunechatte
"NTA. Based on your coworker's logic, Asian heritage girls should only have looked up to Tweetie Bird in the pre-Mulan cartoon era."
"(I don't consider the Siamese cats in Lady and the Tramp to be role models, unless you really want to shred drapes for a living when you grow up)."
"I'm half Asian and can't imagine any Asian person being offended by this."
"In fact, many would be flattered that people of all races see Mulan as a 'sister under the skin' and role model that may help them face their own challenges." ~ Fantastic_Nebula_835
"I'm asian and I'm not offended by it."
"I really hate when those who make this a race issue to make themselves feel better."
"To me that is a racist move... they're basically saying I'm too weak to stand up for myself and need that 'Whiteknight' to come to my rescue."
"OP is NTA." ~ Acrobatic-Hold-4668
"And can I add that the coworker, by insisting that OP's daughter can't/shouldn't identify with Mulan because she isn't of Chinese descent, is reducing Mulan to nothing more than her race."
"Ironic, given that the song 'Reflection' is literally about seeing past her appearance and gender to who she is inside." ~ Purple_Midnight_Yak
"NTA. My whole family is Chinese (I'm adopted in and white) and they would be laughing their a**es off at your coworker."
"I know this from personal experience, because of the number of times I've had some random person come to tell me I'm culturally appropriating while I'm participating in a family event."
"If anything, liking a tv character for her qualities and relating to her while being a different race will foster empathy and understanding."
"While being told 'you can't say you like her - she's Chinese and you're white!' seems much more racist." ~ VioletReaver
Well this was educational.
Hopefully OP can show this thread to her coworker and they can have a calm, detailed chat.
And maybe others will be inspired to do the same.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp