Communication is key in life.
And sometimes people have to figure out new ways to communicate with one another.
New ways means new learning.
And for some that can be problematic.
Case in point...
Redditor Maleficent_Round1611 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA For Listing Everyone Who HAS Learned Sign Language For My Sister To My Parents?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I'm getting a lot of trouble for this one, so I could use some outside opinions on if I should apologize or not."
"I (16 M[ale]) am the middle child, with my older sister being 23 and my younger sister being 13 now."
"Five years ago, there was a car accident and my older sister (will call her Natalie) got banged up very badly."
"Most of it she got better from but she's mute now from damage to her vocal cords."
"Natalie gets by very well with sign language, however, our parents have always refused to actually learn A[merican] S[ign] L[anguage]."
"They always insisted that Natalie could write anything out, that text-to-speech was good enough if she didn't want to carry around a pen and paper."
"Most of her teachers were like that too, but I get it for them, she's just one student and they're busy."
"These are our parents."
"Natalie and I face-time a lot, because I did learn sign for her and it's how she prefers to communicate."
"She texts my parents okay."
"But my parents want to use text to replace the long phone-calls they had with their parents when they went away to college ."
"And Natalie doesn't want to just sit around and text with our parents for hours at a time."
"They expect her to be sitting on the couch with the phone and replying as fast as possible in real time, and she's not interested."
"I overheard my parents complaining about this and insulting Natalie for it, and I blew up at them."
"I pointed out everyone who'd learned sign for Natalie-me, multiple cousins, our grandparents, multiple aunts and uncles."
"The two boyfriends she had after the accident (one of whom cheated on her so he wasn't exactly Prince Charming but he still learned)."
"Her current girlfriend, and her creative writing teacher in high school."
"So many people learned to sign for her, but never them."
"My parents got really angry at me and told me I couldn't understand, then grounded me."
"Then both of their sisters, who never agree on anything, called to tear into me."
"They told me that my parents both worked full time, had three kids to raise, both had church responsibilities."
"And that Natalie and I were brats for expecting them to learn a new language on top of that."
"They sarcastically asked me what clubs and sports me and our little sister should have lost so my parents could spend time learning a new language when Natalie's hands worked fine."
"My aunts never agree on anything."
"We can't have activities with both sides of the family because they're so bad."
"But they both agree that Natalie and I are awful."
"They can sign I love you, but only because they know the trivia about that also being the gesture Spider-Man makes when shooting webs."
"The argument is that we're Mormon (ish for some of us) and so the belief is that God directly chose them to do their church tasks."
"Mom to teach a class and Dad to be the clerk for the local congregation."
"And that Natalie can write or use a text-to-speech app."
"I don't like it, but I feel like I should lay their arguments out in full."
So I guess I just wanted to come here and see if y'all agree that we're unreasonable and that I should apologize to my parents."
"So AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA, parents should've been the first ones to learn ASL."
"If 'church responsibilities' are more important than parental responsibilities, then they should get a reality check on what said church is teaching them."
"Also, it's not Natalie who wants those long phone-calls, so they have to find a solution for them, not Natalie." ~ LordNeo
"But, but 'family values...'"
"...Ah Mormons... figures... you can get the Mormon out of the cult, but not stop the The Church of Jesus Christ of L[atter] D[ay] S[aints} Church from being one."
"Conditional love is just the best they can offer."
"OP you are NTA."
"You are a good egg."
"I hope you can preserve this for yourself despite the social pressure of your family."
"You and Natalie might want to have a plan though and play this smart."
"As long as you are financially dependent on your parents they have considerable power over you." ~ Panzermensch911
"Which is why my first instinct would be to tell their pastor that they're using the church as an excuse to not learn ASL for OP's sister, then let's see how well that goes."
"Any church who doesn't understand that you need time off to learn a new language to properly communicate with your child is a church you shouldn't be a part of."
"OP, if your parents really wanna push it, have your sister only communicate with them through you instead of texting them."
"That should piss them off enough to make them learn. NTA." ~ MrDXZ
"Now OP knows what will bring his parents and their sisters together: being awful."
"NTA, OP. A perfect callout."
"That's why they're so mad."
"Their lack of commitment to communicating with your sister how she prefers compared to so many other people puts them in a bad light." ~ Curious-One4595
"OP, why don't you ask them how they think Jesus would react finding out that parents put more effort into a place of worship than their own child?"
"I'm not religious, but was raised in Fundamentalist Baptist principles."
"Fellowship starts at home, and how can they foster a sense of community in their own family if they never even make an effort to learn her language."
"The fact that a boyfriend who cheated put more effort into the relationship than her own parents is heartbreaking."
"Quite frankly, they're not good people and need to come to terms with the fact that this is PERMANENT."
"Your sister's vocal chords aren't going to miraculously be healed, and they're only going to alienate her by forcing her into hours long text conversations."
"It's clear that she's not important enough to them to be bothered to learn how to communicate."
"Ask if that's how little all their children mean to them or if it's just because she's 'broken' now?"
"She's not broken and has a way to communicate, but that doesn't mean that your parents see it the same way."
"There's literally no way your parents aren't the AH's in this scenario."
"They can get on board and learn how to communicate or, in all likelihood, find themselves slowly distanced from the extended family and their children once all your siblings are grown."
"Everyone else made the effort to learn because they care about your sister when her own parents didn't, and that's not a secret within the family."
"Your parents are showing their true colors, and it's not attractive. NTA, OP." ~ RogueSlytherin
"NTA personally, I feel that 'church responsibilities' come after family and communication with your daughter is necessary."
"I think they could find time to learn ASL for her."
"There's no set time frame for fluency, I found anywhere from 60-90 hours to years."
"But wow- they can't even sign 'I love you' or 'I'm proud of you.'" ~ Glock212327
"Mormon"
"That explains a few things."
"You're NTA."
"You're also right that of all the people who have dedicated the time to learn sign language for your sister, your parents failing to do so is, at best, negligent, at worst malicious.
"Your aunts are both wrong."
"If a teacher took the time out of their life to learn some sign language to communicate with your sister, your parents have zero reason not to do the same for their own child other than they simply don't care enough." ~ tofu_deluxe
"I haven't been involved with the LDS church for 15 years, but I am a life long Utah resident."
"Them being Mormon raises more questions actually."
"A huge number of Mormons are multilingual because they served a mission."
"Family values and familial unit are also of huge importance to Mormons."
"The LDS church has a million issues with it, but the average Mormon is actually really pleasant, kind, welcoming, and understanding."
"The problem is the institution, not the individual."
"Not to say that certain beliefs aren't more popular with Mormons, but they aren't common."
"OP is NTA."
"The parents are TA, but not because they are Mormon."
"They are just being shi**y parents and using their church as an excuse to be shi**y." ~ Jonin4life
"Former Mormon here."
"Being a bishop or chuech president is a time commitment; teaching a class or being the ward clerk does NOT take up that much time. Maybe 2 to 3 hrs/week."
"Not learning ASL was a CHOICE that they made."
"They simply don't want to make the effort. Your parents are being extremely selfish."
"And in my opinion, God would want your parents to prioritize the welfare of their children over their church commitments."
"I have 3 kids and I work 50 to 70 hours a week."
"And let me tell you, if one of my kids needed me to learn ASL in order to communicate with them, I'd do it in a heartbeat. NTA." ~ Miserable-Arm-6797
Well OP, Reddit is with you.
You're a good brother for learning ASL.
Hopefully you can bring your parents around one day.
Good luck to you and Natalie.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp