People find love in all sorts of places.
People meet online, in bookstores, through mutual friends.
The possibilities are endless.
One place people tend not to look for love is among exes of our loved ones.
Redditor AlternativeForce9517 needed to discuss his issues regarding his brother's choice of girlfriend. So he turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subreddit for feedback.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However, there are no required voting acronyms—only suggested ones—and no official final judgment declared.
He asked:
"AITAH for caring that my brother is dating my ex-wife?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"Was with my ex-wife for ~8 years."
"Ultimately, the relationship broke down with complicated fertility issues."
"I was the one who called it."
"10 years ago, I met my current wife."
"We have now been married for 5 years."
"After a lengthy I[n] V[itro] F[ertilization] process, which resulted in a donor, we now have two young children. "
"My ex-wife also now has a child - fertility issues were all mine."
"Recently, I called my brother for his birthday."
"After chatting, I asked what he was doing that night, and he saidhe was having dinner with X."
"Being a common name, I didn't think much of it in the moment."
"But then, I thought what if… I went onto Facebook, and my ex-wife had posted a cutesy message on his profile for his birthday, and he had replied in kind."
"I didn't want to jump to assumptions, so I called our Mum and asked if my brother was seeing X (my brother sees Mum every day, so she would know)."
"Her response totally threw me. "
"She played dumb but then added, 'So what if he is?'"
"The whole thing became me asking, 'but isn't this weird?'"
"And both my Mum and my Dad are saying it has nothing to do with me."
"What did it matter?"
"I'm happy, and she's not my property."
"I hung up, knowing now he obviously was seeing her."
"So I called him."
"He has been seeing her for months."
"Everyone kept me in the dark, and no one thought to tell me because they didn't think it mattered."
"The other complicated factor is that X really tried to mess with my relationship with my current wife (fake profiles created to contact my current wife, etc.)."
"Which I'm not sure my brother knows about, but my parents sure did."
"I ended up telling my brother that if he's seeing her, he won't be seeing me, and hung up."
"He tried to call back a few times, but I didn't answer."
"He then sent me a message saying, 'real mature.'"
"So AITAH for thinking a conversation before him pursuing things with her was courteous?"
"In my opinion, you don't pursue your siblings ex spouse. Ever."
"But to do so without checking in, and for months…?"
"And then to make matters worse, my Dad calls to berate me for 'abusing my mum,' and she's so upset and 'I don't know what I have done to her.'"
"And I can hear her swearing at us all in the background."
"I never raised my voice during our conversation."
"Also… had the conversation in the room with a nanny cam."
"It's all recorded."
"And I'm good."
"How do we come back from this?"
The OP was left to wonder:
"So... AITA?"
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A**hole.
"They are adults and can do whatever they want."
"But you doing whatever you want is also acceptable, and if you don't want a life with your Ex in it, then that's how it should be, NTA."
"Side note, pretty rich your brother saying 'real mature' when he hid his adult relationship from you like a schoolboy who isn't allowed to date."
"He and your parents were lying for months by omission, which is a sneaky thing to do." ~ AccomplishedChart873
"And it's richer that ALL 3 are telling him to grow up and get over it."
"If it wasn't a big deal, why hide it for months?"
"OP, just block them all... but especially take a major break from your parents."
"I expect questionable behavior from a younger sibling; it happens."
"But for mom to be that manipulative and evil, and dad to not only go along with it but to actively back her??"
"Yeah, no."
"Brother screwed up by going for the ex."
"Parents are worse because they're supposed to love and support all kids equally."
"OP's parents don't even like him, it seems let alone love and support him."
"I'd cut them off and let them enjoy their golden boy and his trash girlfriend." ~ HeyPrettyLadyMaam
"Totally agree, also uncomfortable with parents, obviously siding with and choosing brother and ex's relationship." ~ Ilovewally
"Your family not telling you because they didn't think it mattered is such an obvious lie."
"No one said anything because they knew how sketchy this whole situation is, and now they want to flip this around and act like you're the problem."
"Sounds like betrayal to me."
"I'm sorry you're in this situation."
"I'd go no contact also."
"It's not immature, it's protecting your peace."
"I wish you good luck." ~ raucus_one
"They were 100% trying to wait it out until there was 'enough' time in the relationship so people wouldn't judge too harshly."
"'Why are you getting upset now? They have been together a year, do you really want to destroy a solid year-long relationship because you two had differences years ago?'"
"Since they don't think the relationship is wrong at all, it gives OP carte blanche to make a social media post about how they found out, how long it was kept from him, and what the ex had previously done to attempt to destroy OP's current relationship." ~ LindonLilBlueBalls
"Oof. I mean, your brother is obviously in the wrong."
"I would also be MASSIVELY suspicious she has got together with him on purpose to try and stir shit up with your family."
"Also, I will never understand when parents just think this kind of thing is okay and side with one sibling over another when it's the other sibling, i.e., your brother, who is clearly in the wrong."
"NTA. Hold your ground, and they may see sense eventually." ~ GreenTeaShaman
"My thoughts exactly."
"Ex-wife did it to mess with OP."
"The parents enabling this is insane, and brother's behavior is despicable."
"It's a massive treachery."
"On the plus side, his brother chose his own punishment."
"Get the popcorn ready for when their relationship goes to the dogs, and he comes grovelling, asking for your forgiveness and venting."
"Your best revenge is living your best life."
"Big hugs." ~ Mapilean
"NTA - There are BILLIONS of options in this world, yet he gets with your ex-WIFE!?"
"Brother needs to learn how to approach and interact with new women, in my opinion." ~ sol_omonn
"NTA. But I think you need to write an email to your brother, mother, and father and lay out all of the things this ex has done, lay out your hurt that this was hidden from you, and that to keep your family safe, you will not be intermingling with them until all of these previous points are dealt with." ~ Vivid-Isopod-7018
"NTA. They connived to keep you in the dark because they know it's morally wrong."
"No one hides good news; that should have been good news if it was morally right."
"There's no coming back unless your brother finds someone else, because as long as X is still in the picture, relationships will be strained, and she seemingly still has you on her mind, so things could go awry if close contact is established based on an in-law relationship." ~ Serious-Shopping-119
"I need more information."
"You were with your wife for 8 years."
"You broke off your relationship because you thought she couldn't get pregnant."
"Turns out, it was your issue."
"You said you met your current wife 10 years ago andhave been married for 5 years."
"Did you meet your current wife whilst still married to wife #1?"
"Because that might explain the situation about your ex-wife creating fake profiles to reach out to your current wife if you were cheating."
"Otherwise, your brother should have understood that his being with your ex would create issues."
"Unless he lives in a very small town, he should have had other options."
"NTA (unless you cheated on your ex-wife with your current wife- then you would be the AH)." ~ MimZWay
"They didn't tell you because they know it matters, it is weird, but there's not much you can do."
"It's entirely up to you if you understandably distance yourself; you're not going to change your parents' minds at this point."
"Just let it play out and watch from a distance if you want, or completely ignore it. NTA." ~ Plastic_Truth3053
"NTA. There are 8 billion people, and your brother had to go after your ex."
"The fact that no one told you, and it had been going on for a while, it proof that they know it's weird AF."
"Also, any chance of remaining cordial kind of went out of the window when ex tried to sabotage your current relationship."
"I assume brother is the golden child. Is he the father of your ex's kid?"
"Anyone from outside the situation would agree it seems very uncomfortable to be ina situation where your ex's kid is your brother's child( also your nephew)."
"Before they started dating, your brother should have come to you and cleared it with you first."
"Your brother's real mature comment is a bit rich considering his actions."
"I'd agree it would be a valid move if u were to cut these people.out of your life." ~ Babaychumaylalji
"NTA, she literally stalked and harassed you." ~ CarrieDurst
This is an intense situation, OP.
Reddit has your back.
Your family is so far out of line, the line is out of sight.
It's not just weird, it's creepy.
Stay focused on your family.
Good Luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp