We all know what it's like to be excluded from something and can attest to how hurtful and long-lasting that feeling is.
But nothing hurts quite like being excluded by family, pointed out the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor Elegant_Payment_4076 became increasingly concerned by how obviously excluded her daughter, who was the only girl relative among her brother and male cousins.
But when she was excluded from her uncle's wedding party, with all of her cousins and future female relatives included, the Original Poster (OP) decided not to force her daughter to attend a wedding where she did not feel welcome.
She asked the sub:
"Am I overreacting by letting my daughter skip my brother's, her uncle's, wedding because she wasn't included in the wedding party?"
The OP's daughter was frequently excluded from family events.
"I (42 Female) have two kids, Lanie (12 Female) and Matt (9 Male)."
"My brother (37 Male) is getting married next month. He asked my nine-year-old son to be a ring bearer and included my three nephews as ushers (12 Male, 15 Male, and 16 Male).""
My 12-year-old, Lanie, wasn't asked to be anything."
"For context, she's the only girl cousin in the family and already struggles with feeling left out. She also hit a growth spurt and is already feeling awkward about her height and being a tween."
Lanie was very hurt by being excluded from the wedding party plans.
"When she realized she was the only cousin without a role, she took it really hard. She cried multiple times and told me she was 'sick of being the only girl' and always being left out."
"I talked to my brother and gently asked if there was any small role she could do, even handing out programs or helping seat people; just something so she didn't feel singled out."
"He said no, that they didn't want to add anything last-minute, and the wedding party was already set."
"What's interesting is that my brother decided he wanted his side of the wedding party to be his male relatives, which is fair, and the bride's side is made of up of her female relatives, including sisters, nieces, and cousins. The flower girls are also the bride's younger nieces."
Hearing what her uncle had to say, Lanie decided she did not want to attend at all.
"After that conversation, my daughter told me she didn't want to go."
"She said watching all the cousins walk down the aisle while she sat there 'like nothing' would make her feel even worse."
"She was crying and clearly overwhelmed, especially when we were trying to find an outfit for her to wear."
"I'm thinking about letting her skip the wedding and let her spend the weekend at a friend's house."
"My husband agrees with me because the other option is having a teen who is glaring death daggers at the photographer during the ceremony or playing on her Switch during the reception and looking like she clearly doesn't want to be there."
"At this point, I've RSVPed, saying my son and I will be there and that my husband, who will be out of town that weekend, will not. I did not mention my daughter."
The family did not take the OP's RSVP well.
"Unfortunately, now some family members are mad."
"My mom, brother, and other relatives think I 'let her throw a tantrum to get out of something,' and say I should tell her 'to suck it up,' because 'kids don't get to skip weddings just because they didn't get attention.'"
"My mom said I'm going to embarrass my brother by having one of my kids missing in family photos."
"I personally feel like forcing her to go when she was heartbroken would have made things worse, and I didn't want her sitting there crying through the ceremony."
"But now I'm second-guessing my choice, so here I am. Would I be overreacting by letting my daughter skip the wedding after she was left out of any role and was really hurt by it?"
"AIO?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NOR: Not Overreacting
- YOR: You're Overreacting
Some reassured the OP that her daughter was old enough to decide she didn't want to attend an event.
"I would let her do her own thing and ignore the family throwing tantrums about it." - _JellyBeanTasteTstr_
"NOR. She's old enough to decide if she wants to attend any event. She's been snubbed, and she's valid in her feelings. If she doesn't want to go, you should not force her to go."
"If her attendance were important, they would have ensured that she felt included and wanted."
"This is a literal child, not an adult who didn't get to be in the bridal party. She's the only cousin without a role, and that speaks volumes."
"Personally, I probably wouldn't allow my son to be in the wedding and would skip it. Not because they didn't include her, but because they are making it an issue that she doesn't want to attend." - Away_Walrus_5242
"If it's not a big deal for them to not think twice about not including your girl in the wedding jobs, then it's no big deal for your girl to stand up for herself and make an informed decision on not attending the wedding."
"They're being d**ks over your girl not being included in the family wedding pictures. Well then, if you want her in the photos, give her a job to do. Doesn't even have to be anything that major or important. Make her in charge of the guest book or something small, anything really that just makes her feel included, but isn't that big of a deal at a wedding."
"I think the brother is being a real d**khead here, so in my opinion, let your girl be a d**khead back and not attend the wedding."
"Your parenting choices, your daughter, your rules. Just like it's his wedding, his rules. Take it or leave it, bro. Be petty right back. Not YOR." - Infinite_Club27
"Nah, you're NOR. People gotta realize kids got feelings too, and this stuff can sting."
"Your bro should've considered her feelings before rolling out the wedding plan. In my opinion, it's a d**k move to leave her out like that, knowing she's the only girl cousin and is already feeling outta place."
"If she doesn't wanna go, respect her emotions. Some family photo missing one kid ain't the end of the world, but feeling excluded may stick with her for a long time. Let her chill at her friend's. Sometimes family gotta step in each other's shoes, ya know?"
"Your daughter, your rules. Be her advocate when no one else will. Stand your ground, mate, and don't second-guess yourself. You're doing what's best for your kid." - Love-Skylines
Others agreed and stated that the OP was under-reacting by still attending the wedding at all.
"Honestly, I think you're under-reacting. If one of my kids had been excluded, none of us would be going." - Wooster182
"You literally went out of your way to exclude my child, I'm telling you that it hurt her feelings, and your response is it would inconvenience you too much to give her a small role?!"
"Say no more. Now you get to miss out on me, and both my children (because my son will KNOW to stand up for his sister), and you can see what the real inconvenience is when you have to scramble to fill the role my son had." - LawyerPrincess93
"I'd pull my whole family out of the wedding, too. In my opinion, it says a lot about how they view women, and I wouldn't want to condone that." - ApplesBananasRhinoc
"I remember being 12. I hope she has a wonderful weekend with her friend."
"I don't know what your budget is like, but if there's a new dress she's been eyeing, or something special she's into, she should know she matters and she's beautiful inside and out."
"Like, I get it that it's their wedding, but ALL the nephews have a role?"
"Twelve is already a struggle. Extra hugs and ice cream for her."
"If it were me, I'd respect her wishes but ALSO not attend in solidarity for her, ring bearer included. They didn't want 'big changes' this close to the wedding? Well, now they have a bigger change in finding a new ring bearer." - DogsDucks
"NOR. No one else is considering your daughter but you. She will remember this. And she will remember you put her first when no one else did." - Realistic-Slice8625
Some were disgusted by how the OP's daughter was being treated by her extended family for being a girl.
"I don't think you're overreacting, and it sounds like your family is being serious a**holes. If they're going to find roles for all of your other kids, then they can have her pass programs, usher people to their seats…something."
"I refuse to believe your daughter's ushering would significantly change the wedding plan."
"After singling her out, then they throw a 12-year-old girl under the bus for, 'Wanting attention,' or, 'Wanting to get out of something.'"
"First, which one of those two things is it? It certainly can't be both. If she just wanted out of attending the wedding, then she wouldn't have wanted a role in the first place, is this not so?"
"She's also of that age where a young girl starts to feel certain insecurities; you also state she's feeling awkward about her physical changes, right now, as well."
"Personally, I'd pull out of this wedding, to an extent. I'd tell the brother, 'We can all be there with all the kids having roles, we can be there with none of our kids having roles, or we can be there not at all; your choice.'" - CeaselessGomalu
"NOR. Why can't they include her in some small way? The way your relatives talk, I wouldn't be surprised if this exclusion happens regularly. She should be taught to stand up for herself." - calico_matcha
"Wonder why your family feels the need to bully your daughter for being the only girl. To the point she even states it and now does not even want to participate in something like a wedding."
"The adults here are the problem. Please let your kid stay with a friend." - LunaSylius
"My husband's 10-year-old cousin wanted to be involved in our wedding in some way, despite the fact that none of her cousins were involved. So we let her be the 'Guest Book Monitor.'"
"She sat at a table before the ceremony and flagged people down to make sure they signed the guest book. She felt very important, and we probably had a lot more people 'sign in' than we would have, without her! Win-win!"
"You're not overreacting. If my own child had been excluded from an event in which all his siblings/cousins/etc had been included, I absolutely wouldn't make him attend the event."
"If he's old enough to recognize the fact that he's being excluded, he's old enough to decide whether or not he wants to attend! Kids are people too, and their feelings are valid!" - Legovida8
Others pointed out that the family couldn't be angry about the OP's daughter not appearing in photos when they refused to create a small role for her in the wedding party.
"NOR. They don't need to include her in their wedding, but they also can't be p**sy if she decides not to attend."
"She's old enough to make her own decisions with parental support, which it sounds like she has done here." - AthenaFoxx
"NOR. If your brother would be so embarrassed by having one of his sister's kids missing from photos, then I guess he should have made an effort not to skip that kid when handing out wedding roles."
"If it was that important to them that she be present, I guess they should have considered that when deciding on the wedding party. They weren't required to include her, of course, but as I've seen many people say on Reddit before, an invitation is not a summons, and she isn't required to go either." - External-Challenge93
"If they can't respect her feelings, then why should she respect theirs?"
"It would be one thing if the brother wasn't so dismissive and included her in something. That was the chance for him to be clear that he didn't want her there."
"I don't understand why they are surprised that she doesn't want to be there or why they want someone to attend who they clearly want to leave out, beyond keeping up 'appearances.'" - Novel-Organization63
"'If she's not going, then the wedding pictures are going to look silly, because she's the only child not there...' Well, bro..."
"You can do with that what you will. If she's going to be left out and the only kid going that doesn't even have a tiny little unimportant job at the wedding, and you can't just give her any kind of insignificant job just to be kind and not upset your niece then you'll just have to deal with it."
"Just because she's a child and only 12 doesn't mean she doesn't have feelings."
"Teens are so easily upset, bless them, any kid (and maybe even adults, too) would be upset at not being included."
"NOR. Let her not attend. Good on her for speaking out on this. Make it a lesson if it can't be resolved and give her something to do. NOR." - Infinite_Club27
The subReddit was furious on the OP's daughter's behalf and fully believed that not only should her wishes be respected but that the family's demands should be fully disregarded at this point, especially since the OP already tried to find a reasonable solution.
If the family wanted to so actively exclude the OP's daughter, the only girl on their side of the family, then they needed to deal with the consequences of the outside world noticing, in the form of exclusive wedding photos and other future events.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp