Paris is often considered a destination on many people's bucket lists.
Couples plan lifetime trips there.
It can also be expensive to get to and run around in.
So, who wouldn't want a free honeymoon there?
Redditor Few_Way4190 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for not wanting to hijack my BIL's honeymoon alongside my wife?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (28 M[ale]) have been married to my wife (27 F[emale]) for 2 years now."
"Financially we've both been struggling a bit in the past few years, but our situation is mostly fine now, even though we still live a relatively modest life and we can't afford to casually go to expensive trips in other countries."
"Even our honeymoon was 'only' a trip to a beach from our country where we've been already, and even that cost us quite a lot."
"My wife's older brother (33 M) is definitely much wealthier than us and is known for spoiling his now fiancée (30 F) with gifts and expensive trips."
"My wife definitely commented a couple of times on it, and I could feel she was secretly jealous of it."
"She and her brother are definitely very close to each other, and he helped us quite a bit during the times we were struggling financially."
"And he even allowed her to be a bridesmaid at his wedding (even though my wife and my B[rother]-I[n]-L[aw]'s fiancée aren't really close)."
"Yesterday my BIL announced in front of their family that he wants to reward his sister for putting so much effort into planning his wedding by full-on paying for both of us to go together with him and his fiancée on their honeymoon in Paris for a full week."
"Before I could say anything, my wife immediately accepted it and hugged her brother."
"But then his fiancée started going at him about inviting us to their honeymoon without discussing it with her beforehand."
"And my BIL defended himself by saying he just wanted to help his sister experience something she can't do on her own."
"They were arguing when my wife suddenly intervened and told his brother's fiancée to stop acting like such an entitled brat cause not everyone's as lucky as her to have a wealthy enough partner to support them."
"BIL's fiancée started yelling at my wife about how she's just a leech to her brother who took over her wedding and now wants to invade her honeymoon too."
"I eventually got my wife out of there, and on the way out, I told her that maybe it'd be better for us to refuse to go on my BIL's honeymoon as his fiancée's clearly uncomfortable with it."
"She asked me if I was an idiot for wanting to pass up a trip to Paris for free, that she worked way too hard to convince her brother to invite us for her to back up from it now."
"I told her that maybe she could arrange something else for us, and I don't want to be the reason a marriage falls apart."
"But my wife told me their marriage is not our business but theirs, and if it falls apart, it'd be only my BIL's fiancée's fault."
"I told my wife I want no part in this, and I won't be going on this 'shared honeymoon.'"
"And she started arguing with me about how she can't believe I'm acting this way when she only did this for us, and said that she'll take her brother's offer without me if she has to."
"We ended up sleeping in different beds, and even today, my wife's still giving me the cold shoulder."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So AITA for my refusal?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. You're right that this situation is wrong, and your wife is acting aggressive and strange to you and her future S[ister]-I[n]-L[aw]."
"A honeymoon is for the bride and groom."
"Sit everyone down, thank your BIL, apologize to your BIL's fiancée (if your wife refuses to do so), and suggest going on a four-person trip sometime after their honeymoon." ~ analyst19
"This is a voice of reason and manners."
"SIL is 'entitled' to an intimate getaway with her new husband."
"This is a cultural norm in most places."
"OP's wife (and her kind-hearted brother) have poor boundaries."
"BIL should be putting his wife first in this."
"OP's wife needs to be careful about how she expresses her jealousy over her brother's financial situation."
"My understanding is the OP is a responsible partner, diligently attending to their financial situation."
"If that's true, OP's wife could help more on their own circumstances, rather than (hopefully accidentally) insulting her spouse's efforts in front of her family. NTA." ~ REDDIT
"What the hell did I just read?"
"NTA."
"I am really baffled that your BIL would announce that without consulting his bride and that your wife would accept even though it upsets the bride - whose happiness and comfort matters most alongside the groom's on a f… honeymoon."
"I told my wife I want no part of it."
"Very smart. What kind of vacation is this going to be?"
"You are either traveling with a very icy couple or a freshly separated BIL."
"There is no way this would be fun for anyone."
"You can't force your wife to reject the gift, obviously, but for your own sake, you shouldn't go." ~ HorseFuneralPriest
"NTA. Your wife is showing a really ugly side of herself."
"There's no way that (underneath) she doesn't know that what she is doing is wrong."
"She is in full-on denial because she both wants to exploit her brother and doesn't want to feel bad about herself, which means that she has to tell herself that what she is doing is just fine and that anyone opposing her or getting in her way is the AH -- that means SIL and now you." ~ kurokomainu
"NTA. She had to work hard to convince her brother to take her on his honeymoon."
"WTF is wrong with her?"
"Your wife is acting like a spoiled, selfish brat, and her brother is either stupid or spineless for giving in to her."
"Think you and your SIL both need to think long and hard about what your futures are going to look like." ~ booboo773
"NTA. Listen to your inner voice telling you not to go."
"Your BIL had no business inviting you and your wife to tag along on their honeymoon without discussing it with his bride."
"That's not a good start for their marriage!"
"There's an old saying, 'If in doubt, DON'T.'"
"Your wife, by the way, sounds very much like the green-eyed monster who throws common sense out the window for a chance to improve her (phony) appearance." ~ LoveBeach8
"NTA. This is odd."
"Why is your wife taking over their wedding arrangements?"
"Does she discuss them with BIL and his fiancée?"
"The comment from the fiancée implies not." ~ Lucky-Effective-1564
"Your wife is showing her true colors."
"She is a hateful, jealous person, and she doesn't care about her brother."
"She cares about his money."
"No sibling who actually cares would pull this s**t."
"Might want to think about what this means of her as a person." ~ NaryaGenesis
"NTA, but setting aside the fact that the reality of Paris is not the ideal people think it is, your wife seems like a snake."
"And your brother was kind of an idiot to prioritize his sister's feelings over his wife's."
"Honestly, other than you and your (potential) future SIL--everyone else in here is an a**hole." ~ Tylanthia
"NTA - so many things that made me cringe - she 'worked too hard' to convince him to invite and pay for you both to go on their honeymoon?"
"I feel like there is a Reddit post somewhere from BIL's fiancé about her selfish SIL inviting herself on her honeymoon."
"Next... she said in front of everyone how not everyone is lucky enough to have a partner who can spoil her etc."
"How hurtful is that to say in front of said partner and in front of everyone?"
"And their marriage is on them. Who cares if it falls apart as long as I get my way? Ick."
"Major ick. And an idiot?"
"This irks me because I don't care how bad the fight is, I hate name-calling."
"Your wife is an absolute spoiled witch." ~ throwthetrollaway12
"NTA. I'm sort of in a similar position with my brother being VERY wealthy, and I'm barely managing to exist while I care for our elderly parents, and he contributes nothing to their care (Sorry. My own anger showing through)."
"Still, I love my brother and SIL and try not to begrudge their hard work and very smart financial choices."
"But I'd never be okay with joining them on a vacation if both my brother and SIL weren't in agreement."
"I'm not entitled to a penny of their money, and your wife isn't entitled to a penny or a vacation." ~ crazymastiff
"NTA. It isn't even BIL's idea?"
"Your wife has been relentlessly guilting her brother to let you guys crash their HONEYMOON."
"This is ugly!"
"It also has an additional creepy vibe that your wife seems upset that she's no longer her brother's favorite girl. 🤮" ~ JohnRedcornMassage
N"TA. You should call your BIL and say you appreciate the gesture but feel the timing of joining his honeymoon isn't great."
"That you would be happy to accept a future trip at a different time so he and his wife can enjoy their honeymoon without family present."
"It's one thing to treat someone, and it's another to invite people to your honeymoon." ~ ms_sinn
"NTA. Your wife is delusional to even think of going on he brother's honeymoon, and her brother is delusional for inviting her without talking to his bride."
"Let them go to Paris, and you and his ex-bride-to-be can go to the beach."
"Don't go!" ~ MorgainofAvalon
"Please for the love of God, don't go."
"It will be humiliating for your BIL's wife and for you."
"You don't want any part in this."
"Your wife is weird tagging along on someone else's honeymoon. NTA." ~ glamourcrow
"Holy mackerel! I can't imagine anything more emasculating. NTA."
"I'm sorry that you have a wife who would see this sort of treatment of you and not even understand why it would make you uncomfortable."
"NTA. Do not go on this trip." ~ whistleDick52
Well, OP, Reddit is with you.
It seems best to let the happy couple go on this trip alone.
Good luck trying to explain that to your wife.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp