Depression is more a part of the birthing process than people like to admit.
So much happens emotionally, physically and hormonally while life goes into a complete upheaval.
Depression can cause people to act out in ways they never would think possible.
That's why choosing words carefully is so important.
Case in point...
Redditor Pizza-lover-13 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for going off on my wife for commenting about our 3-week-old daughter's looks?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My daughter, our second child, is three weeks old."
"Pre pregnancy, my wife was diagnosed with general anxiety disorder and depression."
"And in the days since birthing our baby girl, is most definitely experiencing post-partum depression."
"Our first child, our son, looks very much so like her."
"In fact, if you look at baby photos of my wife, they look almost exactly like our son's baby photos."
"And my wife is is a looker, so my son is damn cute thank you very much."
"Our daughter got a bit more of my side's gene pool."
"Her hairline kinda has a widow's peak (which I've had since I was a baby)."
"Her lips are relatively thin (like me)."
"Her nose is a little larger than our sons was (I have a Middle Eastern classic hook nose)."
"Nearly every day in my daughter's 21 days on this earth, my wife has made a comment to baby girl about how she's so sad she got daddy's features."
"Some of the other things wife has said to baby girl:"
"Don't worry, I'll get you a nose job as soon as you're old enough."
"I wish you had gotten more of my features."
"My family is beautiful and all the women are timeless."
"Your dad's family, not so much."
"[Son] has the beautiful pouty lips and you got stuck with those pencil lips - oooh it's really tough being a girl."
"Up until yesterday, I was taking a softer approach with comments like - 'ok be nice' and 'ok chillax.'"
"But today I had enough and just snapped and yelled at her for like five minutes straight, and I cursed quite a bit too."
"The gist of my statements were:"
"I don't care if she can't yet understand what you're saying, stop putting that sh*t out into the universe."
"[Son] can understand you, so stop this garbage."
"I can understand you, so stop putting this sh*t in my head and making me listen to it."
"Yea life on girls is tough in this world, especially when their mom is shi**ing all over their appearance."
"She's f**king three weeks old and is still perfect and noble and hasn't hurt a go**amn soul."
"Stop projecting onto her."
"You regularly tell me how your mom f**ked up your psyche with all her comments about your appearance so why the f**k are you doing the same to baby girl?"
"Anyways she was understandably hurt by my comments and we haven't really talked about it or debriefed since."
"I recognize that part of her comments stem from her anxiety/depression as well as her post-partum depression."
"And I also recognize there a lot of this stems from her mom's influence on her psyche."
"I also recognize that yelling and berating people is rarely the right thing."
"So AITA here?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. Who promises a three week old plastic surgery because they take after their father?"
"She needs to talk to a professional."
"NTA and congratulations for your baby." ~ DoIwantToKnow6417
"This sounds like some post-partum to me, especially if this is unlike her normal behavior."
"I recently had my sister (literally the most loving person I know, incredibly understanding of boundaries, etc) snap at me for not wanting to go over while sick."
"Like, incredibly out of proportion snap, it was off-the-wall."
"She also gave birth a couple months ago, after having a very difficult pregnancy/birth only the year before."
"P[ost]-P[artum] D[epression] can make you act totally out of character and is something worth getting checked."
"It's possible that having a daughter is triggering some of these old wounds that OP's wife got from her own mother." ~ Uma__
"I've been with some women who also had some damage from their mom and/or grandmother."
"Those are some deep wounds."
"Couple that with post partum and other things, forget about it."
"OP's wife needed to be receiving professional help before the pregnancy, possible before the first one, it may just not have all manifested yet so it wasn't known."
"That said, I understand where OP is coming from and why he hit the wall he did."
"It's hard to be understanding when you think someone thinks you're ugly and are contributing the physical distaste of your own offspring."
"You hear superiority, you don't hear love."
"I think she needs be looking for some help, but I also think they might need a little together if this is cutting too deep for too long."
"She may be creating wounds of her own in this relationship." ~ Capt0bv10u5
"NTA, regardless of the behavior's genesis."
"Every single day since the baby was born she had insulted her and OP and ignored his gentle redirections."
"No wonder he snapped."
"Losing his temper wasn't the best but it is understandable."
"That said, she needs help and since she doesn't seem to be addressing it he should help her, for everyone's sake."
"But neither childhood abuse nor PPD are a get out of being an a**hole free card and these children need to be protected from her toxicity." ~ Curious-One4595
"Part of the problem is that we don't know if it's unlike her normal behavior."
"She's never had a kid before who looked like her husband and she isn't necessarily going to comment on how the women in the family look to his face."
"It's probably post Partum anxiety/depression but it's still pretty alarming."
"NTA OP before I forget lol." ~ justhewayouare
"I get she may have PPD but she doesn't have to verbalize her thoughts and keep them to herself."
"I suggest she/you both get some counseling."
"It sounds like she needs to do some healing based on her childhood."
"It may not be the best time to do this while suffering from PPD but if nothing else, she needs to stop saying these things out loud."
"NTA and congrats on the birth of your beautiful daughter." ~ mca2021
"Naw, NTA."
"I'd be extremely pissed if my partner was saying that sh*t to our child, and I'd let them know."
"You're right that berating doesn't usually 'work' but you're also allowed to have an emotional reaction to your daughter being bullied, especially by your wife/her mom."
"Time to shut that sh*t down ASAP for your daughter's sake." ~ half_light_8
"It's horrible. I wish everyone could be proud of their features."
"It's something they have inherited from their ancestors, and objectively attractive or not, that's still pretty damn cool."
"And instead of making sure her daughter is proud of the way she looks, this woman is already telling her she's not good enough."
"And Dad is right."
"The brother heard it too."
"He will also grow up to think that his value is in his looks, if this continues." ~ Cluelessish
"I really hope she gets help for he PPD and other issues."
"NTA at all."
"It's not healthy for girls (or children in general) that people and especially parents put too much emphasis on their look - not matter how they look."
"Even if it is to praise their beauty."
"But even more when it's the opposite."
"It can really create damage on the child's self esteem and self worth." ~ Elinesvendsen
"She's literally talking about plastic surgery to her daughter."
"That is vile."
"Nip that sh*t in the bud before she's old enough to understand and develop an inferiority complex."
"And if your wife finds your features so unattractive, why did she marry you?"
"NTA and your wife is effed up." ~ LethargicActionHero
NTA she's hurt is she?"
"Imagine what it's going to be like for your daughter when she's older if her mother keeps up this attitude towards her." ~ LanaJadee123
"I have a weirdly similar experience to this."
"I don't look anything like my mom, more like my dad's Latino side, and she made comments about my appearance and how unfortunate it was I didn't get any traits of hers for my entire life."
"I felt worthless for so many years and it took a long time for me to feel beautiful."
"My dad was my biggest supporter my entire life and the only one who stood up for me."
"If it weren't for him I might still be stuck in that awful pit of self hatred."
"NTA, not in the slightest, please continue to stand up for your daughter and do everything in your power to stop this behavior from your wife before your girl gets old enough to understand and be hurt by it." ~ nerdyhoe
Well OP Reddit is with you.
This is a rough time.
Emotions are high.
You're allowed to express yours.
Maybe a little counselling is necessary.
Congrats on the baby and good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp