When someone destroys our property, it's usually the expectation that they'll replace it.
A person on Reddit ran into drama in a situation like this, however.
When a woman's child threw their cellphone into the pool in their apartment complex, the woman agreed to replace the phone.
But when she saw the bill, she refused to cover it, saying that the phone that was destroyed could be found cheaper online.
The Redditor wasn't sure how to handle this, so they went to the AITA (Am I The A**hole) subReddit for input.
The Original Poster (OP), who goes by the username DragonsflyKitteh on the site, asked:
"AITA:4 yo autistic child ruined my phone, mother refuses to pay"
They explained:
"Repost because I didn't respond within 30 min (I was driving)"
"This holiday weekend I was sitting by our community pool, minding my own business."
"A 4 yo autistic child ran by and threw my relatively new phone into the pool (6 months old). His mother jumped in and got it immediately."
"She apologized and told me 'sorry! He's autistic. I'll make this right'"
"I dried it in rice for 2 days (yes, I know, it doesn't really work). It turned on but the screen was dark and flickering. The cameras were all fogged with water."
"I took the phone to my local phone store and was told they couldn't fix it."
"They were able to set me up with a new phone, give me a credit towards the new phone ( I still owed $330)."
"Ended up paying $280 all said and done for a new phone with case and screen protector."
"Sent the bill to the mother (she said she'd make things right, right?). She told me that she would only pay $60 because that's what my phone would cost used online."
"I told her this wasn't acceptable, I could have bought the $60 phone but would still owe $330 for the phone her child ruined as well as a set up fee for the 'new' phone."
"This would put me at about $420! I explained this to her but no joy but because she's 'a single mother of 2'"
"Am I the A**hole for expecting this woman to 'make it right'?"
"I didn't ask for what I could have or even what I would have needed had I bought that phone online and had to pay off the phone her son ruined."
People on Reddit were then asked to judge who was in the wrong in this situation based on the following categories:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
And though many had some suggestions for how OP could better handle this, most agreed she was absolutely not at fault.
"Having an autistic child doesn't mean that she can go through life not paying for his breakages. NTA."
"If she can't contain him while out and about, then she really should be prepared to pay for the damages." --sunshinenotwinter
"Right. This hit home to me because something similar happened when my son was around 5."
"We were at our neighborhood's community pool and my son was playing with a bunch of other kids."
"A mom was standing on the steps at the shallow end taking pictures of her kids when my son accidentally bumped into her legs and she dropped her phone in the water."
"I offered to pay for the damages and she said no, that it had been her fault for having her phone basically in the pool."
"We exchanged numbers and after I didn't hear from her for a few days I called her. She told me that she'd had to get a new phone but not to worry about it, that she should have known better than to have her phone in a pool full of active kids."
"I insisted that I pay half, and she insisted that I not, that she and her husband had planned on replacing their phones soon anyway, and that they just went ahead an both got new phones then, and that she was so happy with her newer phone and they were not really "out" anything."
"I ended up taking her, her kids, and my son to an indoor play gym and out to lunch; this she accepted. About 9 years later, we're still friends." --BaitedBreaths
"You are NTA. But hounding her via text could be a time consuming drama so I say… Small claims is made for stuff like this."
"File the complaint, make sure to note the full amount of the phone (usually $800 ish) and say you are not asking this."
"Only for what you owed on the phone and for filling fees (small claims charges a one time fee)." --Bluefrenchy
"NTA - Autistic or not, your child destroys something you pay for it. I can guarantee your phone probably wouldn't have been sold for $60 online and she is being cheap." --ghostcraft33
"NTA, Sorry she's a single mom with an autistic toddler. I guess she just learned she needs to hang on to him somehow, especially around a pool."
"The responsibility is on her, take her to small claims court. What she offered you was a pittance of what you had to pay and if she had made a reasonable offer you might have accepted it. Small claims court." --many_hobbies_gal
"Definitely NTA. My oldest is on the spectrum and if he destroyed anything belonging to anyone we replaced it with the same thing it was."
"She doesn't need to pay for your new case and screen protector but she does need to pay for the full replacement."
"Small claims court will take care of this if she's unwilling to pay up. Keep all contact in writing (text/email) so you have proof of everything she says or offers too." --Conscious_Survey7009
"NTA. You aren't an asshole for expecting the mother to make it right, but I wonder if you are seeing things clearly."
"Think of it like a car. If your car is worth $10k and you owe $13k on it and somebody totals it, their insurance would pay you $10k, not $13k."
"The fact that you are upside down on the car is irrelevant to its replacement value. If you owed nothing, would you expect nothing in compensation?"
"This phone situation is no different. Prior to the incident, you had a used phone with a debt attached."
"If you bought an exact replacement and she reimbursed you ($60+ the fee for replacing it with your provider for switching them out), then you would be exactly where you started. That is making you whole."
"That's not what you did. You made a conscious choice to upgrade to a newer phone. This isn't making you whole, it's improving on your situation."
"Take it back to the car scenario. If you totaled my 2014 Altima with 150k miles on it, you owe me a 2014 Altima with 150k miles, not a 2023 Altima with 0 miles."
"Another matter to consider is the following. She's a single mother with an autistic child. Life's hard enough for her."
"While her problems aren't your problems, you shouldn't be trying to profit off of her child's actions, which is what you are doing." --EnvironmentalCut8067
After reading their fellow Redditors' comments, OP came back to post a few updates on this situation.
"EDIT: Thanks to all for your insights and comments. Each one has helped me gain perspective on this situation."
"Small update: The phone was supposed to be water resistant for a short period. It wasn't."
"I've learned my lesson to be more aware of where my phone is and won't be bringing it poolside again."
"I've searched my previous phone in pre-owned and 'good' condition and I find pre-owned Motorola Edge 2021 on ebay from $180-279."
"I don't want to hound her or create bad feelings since we live in the same complex."
"It's obvious now that it's not right to ask her to pay for the screen protector or case since we did buy a new phone and not the previous."
"I'm willing to just ask for the cost of the phone and set up fee. If she thinks $60 or $66 is 'fair' for the phone and is willing to pay the set up fee of $45."
"We'll cover the taxes and other stuff since we'd need it anyway."
"I'm NOT going to sue her or take her to small claims court, it was an interesting idea to entertain but only for a hot second. I realized it's just a phone, not life changing."
"As some of you have said, times are already tough for her."
"Honestly, I just want some compensation, not to cause her financial distress causing her to take food/activities from her children this summer."
"I don't want that on my conscious."
"Edit 2: spelling/repetitive words. Damned mobile"
"Edit 3: I was seated in the grassy area about 10 feet from the pool. The phone was on the arm of my chair. I thought that was within my control (obviously, I was wrong)."
"The boy ran by my chair and snatched the phone, he then ran to the water and threw it in - 4 year olds are quick!!"
"Edit 4: I only stated the boy was autistic because it was his mother who initially stated it as the reason he threw my phone into the pool."
"I'm not in any way trying to judge the boy or an entire group of people for a diagnosis."
"I would want some form of fair (to both sides) compensation. I did admit asking for the screen protector and case was not appropriate."
Hopefully OP can avoid this situation in the future.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp