It's true that families come in all shapes and sizes: one parent, bonus parents, grandparents and aunts instead of biological parents, adoptive parents, working too much, not working enough, and the options go on and on.
While this is perfectly okay and natural, things still need to change if the situation is affecting the kids of the family in a negative way, stressed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor DangerousSnow9878 was excited to hear that his good friend and wife were thinking about starting a family.
But when he asked them how they were going to navigate around their extremely busy work schedules, the Original Poster (OP) was deeply concerned when they said their plan was to depend largely on a live-in nanny.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for telling my friend that hiring a live-in nanny would make him less of, or not, a parent?"
The OP was happy for his friends who were thinking about starting a family.
"My friend and his wife have been talking about getting pregnant now that they're married."
"They both work very long hours seven days a week, as they're both workaholics (we're talking 80+ hours each), and they've been like this for the seven years they've been together."
But he became less excited when he heard more about their plan.
"When I asked who is going to work less, my friend said they're going to hire a live-in nanny to take care of their child while they work all day."
"They make around $200k to $250k a year together and could easily spend less time working given how much money they have saved."
"When I asked how much time they expected to spend with their child, he said he'd probably get around one to two hours a day."
"He also said that neither of them liked the idea of changing diapers or waking up at night to take care of the baby, so they'd be happy to pay the nanny to essentially be the caregiver 24 hours per day, seven days per week."
The OP couldn't help but wonder if this was what was best for the future baby.
"As a father, I was taken aback."
"Part of being a parent is quite literally taking care of your child. Poopy diapers, tantrums, and BEING THERE."
"I asked how his child would feel growing up without his or her parents, and he asked what I meant."
"I told him he's not really a parent if he rarely ever sees his child and never actually does anything a parent does."
"Just because your wife gave birth and you happened to be the reason she had a baby doesn't make you parents; it's the act of being a parent that makes you a parent."
The couple was furious with the OP for his feedback.
"He got really upset with me and hasn't talked to me much all week, and his wife has been posting passive-aggressively on Facebook since the day I said it."
"I really don't feel like I'm in the wrong. They act like they want to be parents but would rather pay someone else to do all the work. It just doesn't make sense."
"AITA?"
The OP later clarified his feelings about his friend's parenting plans.
"For those asking if he wanted my opinion or if it was unsolicited, he did ask what I thought as I'm the only parent he knows, other than his brother whom he doesn't speak with, and I told him my exact opinion on it."
"He's a very stubborn person and hasn't changed since I met him several years ago, and as I've said, he's very addicted to work."
"He openly talks about how dumb it was that I took time off work to go to ultrasound appointments when my fiancee was pregnant, how I should spend more time working rather than raising my daughter since I'm the man of the house, etc."
"I hope his opinion changes, but the fact he's giving me the cold shoulder over this seems ridiculous since he's the one who asked my opinion."
The OP disclosed more about his involvement with his own daughter.
"I spend two hours a day with my daughter Monday through Wednesday, then have about eight hours divided Thursday through Saturday, and I spend all day Sunday with her where I take her on daddy-daughter dates, on adventures, and teach her whatever I can that coincides with her current learning level."
"I am as involved as possible, and while I don't expect that from every parent in the world, I would expect a parent to want to spend time with their child especially if they have ample opportunity to do so."
"I love taking care of my daughter and spending time with her, she knows me as her father and we've spent countless hours on weekdays and weekends bonding and doing things together."
"I'm extremely patient and unbothered by tantrums, poopy diapers, and common mishaps that come along with having a young child, and helping my daughter through tough times only strengthens our bond."
"I feel as if their child is going to be closer to their nanny than them, and they're choosing to spend less time with their child for money they don't need. They both love to work, and it's almost all they do."
"They can afford to buy their child anything he or she wants, but is that what a child would choose if given the chance to spend time with their parents?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some criticized the OP for judging a family that came in a different shape than his own.
"YTA. Families come in all shapes."
"Also, people like to believe their life won't change before they have a kid and it inevitably does. Let your friend and his wife find their own path."
"Stop being so judgmental and raining on their excitement." - Conscious-Owl4014
"YTA. No one asked for your approval, and you're being really judgemental and disingenuous. It doesn't matter who cleans up the baby s**t, it matters who is there for the kid as they grow up and provides for them."
"You think rich people change the diapers and clean up the blowouts? Having domestic help is a privilege for some and a given for others. What, they don't have weekends? Do you think really poor people working more than one job to make ends meet get a bunch of quality time during the week?"
"You have no idea how they will change when they have kids and neither do they. If they work really hard and retire early, great. But you don't get to tell someone that they're not worthy of being parents just because it looks different than your parenting."
"You owe them an apology and you should decide how much of this is your own jealousy." - External-Hamster-991
"YTA. Plenty of people have live-in nannies and still raise their children. My parents both worked full-time when I was a kid. They were usually gone 11 or 12 hours a day."
"We had an extra basement bedroom so their childcare solution was live-in babysitters who got a smaller paycheck and room and board (which wound up being cheaper than other options)."
"My parents 100% raised us. We spent a couple of hours together on weeknights but always had dinner together. We spent weekends together. Our family is super close. The babysitters were like fun bonus adults."
"Don't judge other people's parenting decisions. You make the ones you want. Other people can make the ones they want. That doesn't mean that yours are better."
"Also, it sounds like this couple loves what they do, which can also be an amazing thing to model for a kid!" - Straight_Career6856
"I think kind of YTA. As a father, you should know that a lot of the big ideas you have about what parenthood is going to be like before you actually become a parent are so far off. Probably when the couple actually does have kids, they will love that little baby and want to be (at least partially) hands-on."
"I think you should have laughed it off and let them figure it out on their own. Diapers and midnight feeds are so daunting until you're doing it. If they feel like they need a night nurse and nanny to help get them going, that's on them." - Stock-Ad-7579
"People used to have servants for every domestic job, but it's so bloody expensive now."
"Would you say the same to a single mother working two minimum wage jobs, who barely has a chance to spend time with her children? The reasons for spending less time with the kids are different, but the effect is still the same."
"YTA." - DareNotSayItsName
"Ahhh, the Daddy Wars have arrived. Okay, then!"
"Please enjoy tearing each other to shreds for every choice you make and fighting over whether you are more fulfilled or important or valuable or harder working or better than the other dads. It's a super great way to spend your time as a young parent."
"Seriously, man. YTA."
"You think you're immune from judgment because you spend the amount of time with your kids that you think is enough, but there will always be someone else who spends more or better or more thoughtful time than you do."
"Denigrating other parents, saying they're not 'real parents' because they're not like you is s**tty and dehumanizing. Unless you're in the territory of abuse or neglect, let people figure out what works for them." - mewley
"The thing that makes you the AH is judging them. It's not your place to tell someone else how to live their life, spend their money, or raise their children. And how would you feel if you were told that your style of parenting made you a helicopter parent with children incapable of doing anything for themself because you can't let go of controlling their every move?"
"Put this in reverse, someone thinks they will have a child and dedicate every moment to said child. Then they have a breakdown because they have no adult interaction, they are frazzled, and they are always unkempt."
"Having a baby changes everything and you can't say what's going to happen later. You overstepped and your friend is setting a boundary."
"YTA." - DaniHockey
But others agreed with the OP and felt the couple's priorities were misaligned for parenting.
"Yeah, I was ready to say YTA, but after reading more, definitely NTA."
"Those people, though? Wow. What's the point of even having a kid if they're going to outsource all the care to a nanny?"
"This reminds me of that episode of 'Downton Abbey' where Granny Violet brags about how she was such an involved mother because 'I had a nanny bring the children down to spend time with me for one hour every day (over tea).'"
"They don't want to change diapers or wake up in the middle of the night? That's basically an essential part of the experience of having a baby… Why do they even want one to begin with? I understand your confusion, OP." - littleladym19
"I read the title and thought, YTA, no question about it, it doesn't matter whether the village you have is paid or not. And then I read the post..."
"NTA! There will be no single nanny out there taking on a live-in 24 hours a day, seven days per week, position with this scope of work. This is a rota or shift position, and even with a live-in nanny, probably not affordable."
"Not to mention the 'when are they going to spend any time with the kid' concerns."
"You can't have your cake and eat it! Not with this attitude!" - LonelyHyena
"NTA. You have a point. A live-in nanny by itself doesn't make you any less of a parent, especially if you really need the extra help. But hearing about how often they work, how they can easily afford to take time off to be with their newborn child, and how they both just aren't willing, yeah, you're right."
"The kid is going to grow up thinking the nanny is their parent and mom and dad are just people they see a little bit before bed. They are not going to have a proper bond." - ZoeZerns
"Oh, look. It's 'Downton Abbey' where you see the kids at tea every day."
"What you should be asking them is why they even want a child. It seems like they're doing it because it's the expected thing to do, which is a h**l of a bad reason to bring another life into this world."
"NTA." - Dana07620
"NTA. Someone needed to tell them, even though it's a truth they didn't want to hear. They're having a kid for very selfish reasons and are a**holes for doing so." - theubster
"It's a choice, and kids are not stupid; they can pick up on a parent wanting to be there but can't, and a parent who is choosing not to be there."
"So many low-income families or parents with demanding careers manage to find the balance. They miss things, but the kids know why they can't be there. And those parents who can't be there because they have to work, make the most out of the moments they have."
"These two just don't want to parent at all, it feels like a kid is just on their adult checklist, and they won't value or appreciate the moment they have."
"My parents worked long hours to get us out of poverty, and we were extremely close because even if they couldn't be there, they later showed up and made the most of it, and I knew when they weren't there it was for a good reason."
"They are actively choosing not to parent versus people having no choice to be at work. NTA." - AGirlHasNoGame_
"NTA. Why have a child if you are not going to spend time with them?"
"I think this is a status symbol thing. Your friend wants a child to pull out and parade around for appearances."
"Tell him to get a cat and get a nanny for the cat. The cat will fall in love with the nanny, and he and his wife can work all day, with the same outcome." - donnamayj1
The subReddit was hugely divided over the situation the OP found himself in and the opinion that he shared with his good friend.
While some totally agreed with the OP and felt someone needed to share this perspective with the couple, others felt that the OP had no place in offering his perspective, as families come in all shapes and sizes, all perfectly capable of raising healthy and happy children.
What do you think? Let us know in the comment below.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp