It's that time of the year again.
The holidays are in full swing and the celebrations abound.
Christmas parties are a seasonal staple for many.
So people are getting those Christmas party menus together.
It's time for good food and good cheer.
But all of that good food doesn't come for free.
Redditor QueenMoonshadow191 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for charging my family for my baking?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"There's a lot of context, please bear with me haha... :) "
"I (15 F[emale]) am a theater kid."
"I used to have a tradition of baking and decorating sugar cookies for the cast and crew of every show that I was in."
"The cookies started out relatively simple with very basic designs, but the casts I was in grew progressively larger, and over time my designs got more elaborate."
"It got to the point where I would spend 12 hours in the kitchen baking cookies for 50 people, in addition to 3 other deserts for all of the people with dietary restrictions."
"The last batch I made for theater was in fall 2023, and then I stopped."
"I haven't baked for any cast I've been in since then."
"For the past 2 years now, my Mom has hosted a December Christmas party at our house, with around 50-65 people attending."
"My sisters (twins, 13 F) bake 3-4 deserts for the party, while I make my sugar cookies and a charcuterie board."
"The charcuterie board takes less than an hour, but on average, my cookies take longer than all of their desserts combined."
"For the past 2 years, I have made around 40 cookies for the party."
"My parents pay for ingredients."
"This year, we are inviting over 100 people."
"My Mom has asked me to make 100 cookies and offered me an incentive of $75 upon seeing my less-than-enthusiastic reaction."
"The cookie cutters I'm using this year are smaller than the ones I've used before; however, it will be significantly more decorating than last year, considering I quadrupled rather than doubled my dough recipe this year (at my Mom's request)."
"These cookies will be a 4-day project (one day for dough, one day for baking, and two for decorating)."
"I did the dough yesterday, which is the easiest part, and still took an hour and a half."
"With the time commitment I'll be putting in, I asked my mom to pay me an hourly rate for my cookies, which I haven't done before."
"I would log how many hours I worked over the 4 days, and we could negotiate what that rate would actually be after the party was over."
"My initial suggestion was $20 per hour, which I am aware is high, but I was more than open to negotiating a lower rate with her."
"She told me that I wasn't being generous and that I shouldn't be charging her money because she's family."
"She said that she had offered me the $75 as an incentive, but I should be making the cookies to contribute to the party rather than to make money because baking cookies for her shouldn't be considered a service."
"She said that it was unfair of me to charge her when I made the theater cookies for free."
"My Dad agrees with her, and my sisters are mad that I'm asking for money while they're making their deserts for free."
"Which is none of my business, in my opinion, if they want to be paid they should ask."
"I don't think I'm being unreasonable for wanting to be paid for a likely 12+ hour commitment, but I thought I'd ask here."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP WAS the A**hole.
"Honestly... YTA.'
"You agreed, and then you went back for more."
"You also have to remember that you're not buying all of the baking supplies yourself."
"You didn't furnish the kitchen."
"You don't pay the lights, water, or rent for the house."
"IF you were applying to be a baker, then yes, an hourly rate is more than fair."
"IF you were buying everything yourself and needed compensation, then it would be fair."
"But... At $75, to make 100 cookies?"
"That's not actually all that bad already, and it was kind of a d*ck move to try and beg for more."
"Also... $20/hr?"
"You want full living wages to bake cookies for a family at 15?"
"And you're saying this is 12+ hrs of work?"
"Nah... At MOST... 100 cookies + simple decorating is 6-8 hrs, and you can get decent bakeshop cookies for $10/dozen."
"$75 was far more than fair considering the circumstances and the fact that you're still getting the experience and the time in practice without having to pay for lessons/space/equipment/ingredients." ~ AnonAnontheAnony
"Maybe OP should recognize the fact that she was baking and decorating cookies for her entire theater cast and crew 'for free.'"
"Except it wasn't free... it was at the expense of her parent's pocketbooks."
"At 13 OP was not paying for their own ingredients to bake these cookies for the theater kids."
"They'd have said so."
"So OP's parents not only supported their child's desire to be in theater... they also nurtured their child's baking ambitions."
"Only for that same child to turn around less than 2 years later and charge them more than $75 to bake 100 cookies."
"If I was OP's parents I'd agree to what OP has asked."
"Then when it comes time to pay her, I'd deduct the cost of ingredients, energy used, garbage accumulated, gas going to and from the store, as well as taking out a % for taxes." ~ StatementElectronic7
"100% agree with this comment."
"It blows my mind how entitled/selfish teens can be with their own family, especially with parents who financially support their interests/desires like this."
"A lot of teens don't have it as good as OP."
"OP is still a child, so maybe I should grant some grace but JC, OP needs to work on their values.""
"I've always helped my family with cooking, cleaning, etc."
"And it's taken multiple days of my time."
"It's expected of us to help each other."
"I also know there's not enough I could do in this world to ever repay them for what they've done for me, and I know they'd do more in a heartbeat if needed."
"I'd be disappointed in OP if they were my child."
"I hope to raise my child better."
"We should all help each other."
"Oh, and OP is definitely the A-hole." ~ yodayine
"4 days of work is more work than a family party is worth."
"Mum should just spend the $75 on buying premade cookies."
"But YTA for agreeing, then changing your mind OP." ~ comfortablynumb15
"YTA. Do you know how much work Christmas is for your mom?"
"Waaaaay more than you think it is."
"She asked you for help."
"You shouldn't need to pay, you should just do it." ~ mousepallace
"Your mother has already offered to pay you $75 to bake the cookies, so it seems like she understands how much effort you put into making them."
"I'm a mother, and I'm certain she's put in uncountable hours doing kind things for you."
"A local baker charges $10/dozen for their specialty cookies, which is about what you're getting—and she pays for the ingredients."
"It sounds greedy to charge your mother more. YTA." ~ General_Relative2838
"A gentle YTA."
"You are young but it is time to start appreciating what your parents do for you."
"Making these cookies is a nice thing that you can do to contribute."
"Getting $75 for it is really nice."
"I recently purchased 8 dozen large decorated cookies for my cast and paid $150."
"You are getting a good price."
"$20 per hour is not the going rate for a commercial baker."
"Hourly help gets less than that and is expected to work at a much faster rate than you are going."
"Get in the holiday spirit and make this your pleasant contribution to the party." ~ EmceeSuzy
"YTA. Who's paying your mom for preparing the entrees and the main dish, the sides, decorating, organizing everything?"
"What she's doing is A LOT more work than what she's asking you."
"She was nice enough to offer you money for it, and you took advantage of it." ~ JuiceOk6582
"Sorry sis YTA."
"Do you know how much money is gonna go towards the ingredients for your cookies?"
"Not to mention you said the food was going to be catered, which is also hella expensive."
"Most bakers charge a lot because they're incorporating the cost of materials plus their labor."
"You're only doing the labor."
"So to ask for more money on top of what your mom is offering plus what she's already going to be spending (for you!!!) is very A-holey." ~ Annual_Fall1440
"YTA. You don't have to make every cookie super fancy."
"Just do most of them with simple frosting designs."
"Tell your mom ahead of time that you're doing this to set her expectations at a reasonable level."
"Make only a few time-consuming ones for fun if you want to." ~ MissAuroraRed
"Sorry, but YTA."
"This is for a family party?"
"Do you get to attend?"
"Your parents but the ingredients."
"I assume they did for your theater cookies too."
"Who is paying the electric bill?"
"You are using electricity to make these cookies."
"Who pays for all of the equipment in the kitchen?"
"Mixer, baking sheets, mixing bowls, and on and on."
"If you want $20 per hour, you need to be paying for everything you use."
"The electricity, and rental fees for everything you use."
"The kitchen space."
"Do you have any idea how much time and effort, and money, your mom has put into Christmas for you every year?"
"At 15 years old, I'd say you owe her about 20 years of baking cookies for her Christmas party."
"Bake the cookies."
"Get in the Christmas Spirit."
"Do something nice for your parents, without expecting anything in return." ~ Fickle_Toe1724
"YTA. Requesting payment for cookies baked for your family is not cool."
"Do you think anyone else in your family is expecting an hourly wage for their contributions to the holiday meal?"
"Think about how much effort your mom is putting in to host this party, I guarantee it's more than you baking 100 cookies."
"The idea of a family gathering is that everyone pitches in voluntarily to enjoy a good meal together."
"It's fine for you to ask for help from the rest of your family, or to simplify the design for the cookies to make it an easier task, but this idea of getting paid an hourly wage for your contributions to a family meal should be off the table." ~ abrady44_
"YTA. As long as the cookies don't interfere with your schoolwork, job, or extracurricular activity that will net you a college scholarship, do it."
"Don't bite the hands that feed you (literally)."
"Consider offering your sisters some of the $75 to help you so your time investment isn't so high." ~ HedgieTwiggles
"YTA. If you were using ingredients you bought, it would be one thing, but even then, you could have just done your family a favor." ~ yobaby123
"YTA, when you don't want to do it, then say no."
"And you decided to do a fancy design, so it takes longer." ~ Dry-Personality-9123
"LOL. LMAO even."
"Sure, feel free to charge $20 per hour for cookies for your mom."
"Don't be surprised when mom hits you with your share of the rent, groceries, utilities etc, etc."
"Be for real right now. YTA." ~ t3hnosp0on
Some clarifications from OP:
"I did not accept the $75 and then change my mind."
"I said right away to my Mom that I wanted hourly over a $75 flat rate."
"If I had done that I would have just stuck it out."
"This is a 4-day project around school and homework."
"I'm in high school and finals are coming up."
"The decorating involves royal icing and a few sprinkles."
"This website has some similar cookies: https://theamericanpatriette.com/easy-royal-icing-recipe/"
2nd UPDATE:
"My mom just told me to take it up with my Dad, who agreed to pay me $15 per hour for my fancy designs, which is more than fine with me."
"After rolling out and baking all of the dough, I have 134 cookies and extremely sore hands lol."
"I'm starting icing tonight."
"If I can figure out how I'll post a picture of the cookies when they're done."
"Thank you to everyone in the comments who was civil and respectful. :) "
Well OP, it's nice to hear you found a solution.
Reddit did seem to take issue with your situation.
But this was a matter between you and your parents. It's great that you and your Dad could compromise.
Hopefully, the cookies are a sensation!
Happy Holidays!
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp