Divorce isn't really fun.
It's especially difficult with kids involved.
What can make it extra frustrating is deciding on finances.
Who is going to pay for the kids in all sorts of ways?
That can stir up a bunch of drama.
Redditor cruzincoyote wanted to discuss their experience and get some feedback, so naturally, they came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
They asked:
"WIBTAH for not paying for my daughter's trip?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"A little background before I get fully into it."
"My ex and I currently have an exact 50/50 split of my daughter."
"I pay her $600/month child support and fully pay for my daughter's education, which is about 7k a year on top of the child support."
"Income purposes, I make about 160k, and she's around 120-130k."
"She is remarried as well, so it's a dual-income home."
"Although I don't expect her new husband to have to pay for my daughter, she does have help with the bills."
"We have an agreement that my ex pays for all extra activities."
"One of those activities is Irish Dance."
"Her dance studio is going to Ireland next summer, my ex and her husband will be going with my daughter, and I will be staying home."
"The total cost for the trip is about 3k for just my daughter."
"She wants me to pay for half of it."
"I haven't made a decision as it's still a year away, but I'm leaning towards not giving half because it's essentially going to be a vacation for them."
"Edit: My daughter will still be going even if I don't give half."
"She won't be missing out on it."
"This dance trip is purely cultural, organized by the dance studio."
"There is no competition involved."
The OP was left to wonder:
"Would I be the a**hole for not paying the other half?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question, AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
- INFO - More Information Needed
Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A-hole.
"Contact the dance studio and get the exact expenses."
"Find out what the $3000. covers exactly."
"This way, you know if one parent is going for free or how it works, and if this money is 100% for your daughter, etc."
"If money isn't an option, it may not be worth the battle." ~ LivinTheDream_22
"I don’t want to blow this whole thread up or anything, but as a past Irish dancer, it makes no sense for the school to go just as tourists."
"There must be a performance or competition they’re participating in, and that makes 3k such a lowball of what will be spent."
"Entrance fees, hardshoes, wigs, the dresses can be over 2k by themselves."
"This guy thinks the new husband is going to benefit when he’s probably carrying the household, so her mom can finance an internationally competitive young athlete." ~ EmilySD101
"NTA. No further explanation needed." ~ Wildwest21
"While there is plenty of a-holery from the people trying to twist the narrative to paint you as TAH, you are NTA."
"There is a clear agreement that your ex covers stuff like this trip, she is capable of paying for it, and seemingly is asking in hopes you’ll subsidize a nicer vacation for her and her husband."
"F**k that." ~ Icy-Willingness8375
"NTA because it's not your responsibility..."
"If Mom wouldn't be able to afford it and my daughter super wanted to go, and I could afford it."
"Then yes, I can see paying it."
"However, Mom and partner can absolutely afford this, and it's their responsibility."
"I'd only offer to do half if the child was going alone because they didn't have money for it."
"Other than that, it's a vacation and not a need." ~ shoulda-known-better
"She doesn’t get to renege on the deal you made just because she doesn’t like the cost."
"Took my kid to Disneyland in the US at 10, he barely remembers it now at 19."
"While a trip would be nice, it’s not a must."
"She’ll survive."
"You’re already holding up your end of the bargain and then some on a single income."
"As a mum myself, I sure as hell wouldn’t pay for it."
"But I’d throw in some spending money. NTA." ~ Expressdough
"NTA - These comments are wild. I’d be on the fence about paying this personally."
"How many other trips will she want you to pay half for after this one, considering your agreement?"
"I think you’re in the right."
"Furthermore, if you do pay, I’d put my foot down, let her know it’s a one-off, and please do not ask for any expenses towards extracurricular activities in the future as per your agreement."
"It’s an agreement for a reason; as you have said, you pay plenty in child support and even more on taking her on once-in-a-lifetime holidays."
"I also imagine you are the type of guy to spoil her in your own time, and so no, absolutely NTA, you seem like a cool dude, I feel like your ex is taking advantage a little."
"But it’s up to you at the end of the day, but I’d tread carefully in this situation, as it may be expected again in the future."
"EDIT: Since a lot of people in here are mad, even though she will go regardless of whether you pay half or not."
"Could you possibly ask your wife if you can instead give your daughter the 1500 for spending on said trip rather than towards it, because I know it’s not about the money." ~ F20_M
"NTA. You pay for her education, and her mother pays for extra activities."
"Dance is an extra activity."
"Their household vacation is also an extra activity."
"Neither of these activities is your responsibility."
"I would say that depending on your daughter’s age, she could be contributing toward the cost of her own expenses herself, but that’s something to be decided among those who are funding the trip — not you." ~ BeachPlze
"NTA. You pay in accordance with your agreement, plus her college expenses."
"The trip is an extra, and your ex should cover it in full."
"That’s very fair." ~ FormerlyDK
"NTA. You pay child support, and you pay for her education 100%."
"If the deal is that your ex-wife covers extracurricular activities, and I suspect she's the one who gave approval to go (before even asking you), she should cover it."
"I would have loved to have had an ex-husband who was involved, took my daughter on vacations, and paid child support."
"I still did everything I could to make sure my daughter had a relationship with her father."
"She's 27 now and has a great relationship with her father, her step-father, and her father-in-law." ~ AngstyAF5020
"Eh, I think NTA."
"But I would call and ask the dance studio about the fees and what I cover, and go from there."
"Maybe you could pay a smaller portion than half or provide your daughters with spending money."
"It’s funny to see all these people in the comments acting like you’re a terrible dad despite paying several hundred dollars a month in child support, despite having equal custody as well as spending $7000 a year to pay for her education." ~ Incognitomode1973
"Man, I love Reddit."
"These two are splitting the daughter 50/50, and yet he’s paying the mother monthly for, I don’t know… existing?"
"And additionally paying all for all of the daughter’s educational expenses."
"Yet because he doesn’t want to pay for half of a trip the ex-wife will be enjoying with her new boyfriend, he’s the bad guy?"
"This is all with her making almost as much as him, by the by."
"OP, tell your parasitic wife to pay for her own vacation, not like she’s being asked to do much else financially."
"Your daughter may complain, but your wife is certain to turn her against you anyway, so no worries." ~ Cthulhus-Tailor
"OP, you do NOT have to cover for her trip; that is ridiculous on her part."
"I also want to thank you for contributing so much towards your daughter."
"I get $600 for TWO kids with 50/50 custody, though my son has been living full-time with me for the past couple of months."
"My ex is also a two-income household; he makes six figures, while I work three jobs."
"Please tell your ex-wife she's being greedy." ~ Super_Chilled_Reader
"NTA…This is not a requirement of the dance school."
"There is no competition."
"It is a vacation."
"My wife can pay for it."
"I would give my child spending money." ~ Worth-Season3645
"NTA. For one, you already pay child support on top of your daughter's tuition."
"Two, you have that agreement with your wife where she pays for extracurriculars, and this trip is definitely one."
"Just make sure you explain how things stand to your kid, so your wife doesn't spin it into something it's not."
"And maybe give your girl some pocket money for the trip." ~ Martin_Pagan
"NTA. These idiots calling you the a**hole are just puking up the standard 'Dad should be an ATM because men aren't 'real' parents' bullsh*t."
"Plain old misandrist idiocy."
"If you were the mom, they'd all be screaming that you should stick to the custody agreement and telling you what a steaming pile of shit your ex is."
"The agreement is there for a f**king reason."
"Do not deviate from that sh*t unless your kid is in harm's way."
"You give an inch, she'll find other ways to bleed you dry."
"Her finances are none of your business, and what her husband does with his money is even less your concern."
"You need to be cordial and cooperative to coparent, not a doormat money machine."
"The whole point of your custody agreement is to stop this kind of crap."
"Everybody agreed this kind of thing is her responsibility."
"Everything else is irrelevant." ~ Dragon_Bidness
Reddit agrees with you, OP.
You're already paying your fair share.
Your wife can keep up with your agreement.
Don't be afraid to stay firm.
Good Luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp