It's true that there's no way we can know every little detail about someone else's relationship, no matter how much we might talk to them about it.
And honestly, it's acceptable and even necessary for some things to stay between a couple.
Anyone who thinks differently is likely snooping or looking to criticize the couple in some way, admitted the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor AITA-soapyeyes was surprised when he lent his phone to his sister, only to be confronted a few minutes by her and their mother for his wife's "scandalous" behavior.
But when he realized they were referring to a selfie she sent him of her breastfeeding their baby, the Original Poster (OP) couldn't help but laugh it off.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for telling my mom 'to wash out her eyes with soap' after she saw a 'raunchy' photo of my wife?"
The OP let his sister borrow his phone.
"My wife, 'Tiana,' gave birth to our beautiful son 7 months ago."
"She works from home and enjoys sending me pictures and videos of my son and the two of them together. Some of the pictures are plain selfies, others are impromptu, elaborate photoshoots of him on our couch."
"I find the pictures are cute and they always brighten up my day."
"My sister, 'Ariel,' just got out of a bad marriage and my mum and two brothers were helping her pack her things up."
"At one point, my sister's phone died and she asked to use mine to make an important call."
"I agreed and I assumed that she would bring back my phone in a few minutes."
He was surprised when his sister and mother both confronted him.
"I assume Tiana sent a picture of herself while I was working (when my sister had my phone) because, when I stopped to take a break, my mom and Ariel approached me, my phone in hand, about Tiana's 'scandalous' behavior."
"They showed me a selfie of Tiana, sent a few minutes after I had given my phone to Ariel, of her breastfeeding."
"Nothing was even 'exposed,' she was smiling, and the photo was mostly of her face."
"Ariel told me that it was 'ungodly and indecent' for my wife to be sending pictures 'of that nature' to me. (Again, there was barely any boob in the pic.)"
"Then, my sister pulls up a video of Tiana in the mirror, showing off her new dress, baby on her waist."
"The dress showed a little cleavage, but I didn't think it was anything too serious."
"Again, Ariel started to go on a rant about how 'inappropriate' Tiana was behaving as a 'new mother.'"
The OP finally heard enough.
"In the moment, I was in disbelief and somewhat amused, so I stayed silent."
"She kept going off about how 'disturbed,' she was after seeing those pictures and how 'dirty' she felt after."
"I was tired of listening, so I pointed to a sink and told her to 'wash her eyes out with soap if it was bothering her that much.'"
"This did not help the overall situation. Ariel stormed off and my mom told me that I should be more sensitive and understanding about her (marriage) situation."
"When I told my wife, she laughed but suggested I apologize to help everything go back to normal."
"AITA? Was I too harsh?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some were grossed out that breastfeeding was being sexualized at all.
"I'm still floored anyone would think a mother breastfeeding is in any way sexual." - MaryAnne0601
"Here is what gets me, she asked to borrow his phone. That gave her zero right to open his messages from his wife."
"Especially if she's so easily triggered by... dresses? And... breastfeeding?"
"In what world is that 'ungodly and indecent'? Isn't that why God made breasts? To feed babies milk?"
"Her logic is seriously confusing. Apparently, breasts are completely disgusting and disturbing to this woman who also has breasts. Geez."
"I don't think he should apologize, he was just sticking up for his wife." - SaiyanPrincess28
"I was actually JUST having this conversation with my mother. The way people think that boobs are disgusting is beyond me. Like, you see more tit at the beach."
"Heaven forbid Ariel sees a woman in a bikini. Will she be clutching her pearls then?" - beachylawgirl22
"I think she should be happy OP only asked her to wash her eyes and not something along those lines. I know I would have been looking them up and down with a, 'If breastfeeding is that scandalous, then we all know now why you got divorced.'" - Dangerous-WinterElf
"NTA. If your wife sent you full-blown nudes, neither she nor you would be in the wrong either. What you two send each other is no one else's business."
"But photos of her FEEDING your child? They are the a**holes for their judgments on that." - LilySeekers
"The OP's question wasn't about Ariel (who sounds like a really fun chick), but if OP was too harsh."
"YTA OP, soap is too harsh for the eyes. Apologize: 'I'm sorry, I should have told you to wash your eyes out with warm water, soap is too harsh... Also, get a therapist.'" - blarryg
Others pointed out it was no one's business what someone did in their relationship.
"NTA. Even if she was naked in the picture, it still wouldn't be indecent, they are married. Does Ariel live in the 50s?" - sirnay
"Wow. A nursing mother is a beautiful sight, especially to a daddy that can't be there to help out at the time. She sounds like a prude, and how can anyone judge someone else for sending pics to their partner?! She sounds exhausting."
"Ariel should be grateful she has a family to fall back on, and OP and his wife should send more 'sexy' photos to one another just for funsies." - FullyRisenPhoenix
"Is it even still repression if you're aghast about a f**king picture of a mom breastfeeding her baby sent to the baby's dad? That's 100% non-sexual and it was a private photo just for the dad. Not like she threw it on Facebook."
"Sounds a lot more like she got salty seeing OP and his wife having a loving marriage and being happy with a new baby to me. It's a sad situation that women respond to jealousy by calling the other woman a slut (and equally sad that men respond by attacking the other man's masculinity)." - -ggggggggg-
"Even if she sent straight-up nudes of herself, that would still... be fine?? It would be awkward, to be sure, and perhaps an apology along the lines of 'I am so sorry you saw that' would be in order, but sending sexual content to your spouse is a normal part of many people's sexual relationships."
"People should take all precautions to make sure nothing awkward happens, but sometimes horrible luck or snooping will mean people see things they don't want to."
"Just like with actual sex, the onus is on the intruder: if you accidentally walk in on something you were not supposed to between consenting, nonadulterous adults, you leave and pretend it never happened." - xtaberry
"Ariel sounds like the kind of woman who'd go looking for trouble and then complain about finding it."
"OP, I would tell Ariel and your mother that you're expecting an apology from La Snoopy but I already know you won't be getting it."
"But I would ensure that Ariel is never left alone in your home (lock your bedroom door if you are) and take away any spare keys to keep her from rooting through your stuff to find more stuff to disapprove." - Awkward-Wasabi-9262
"NTA and wow, she sounds like a real piece of work. If it were me, looking at a sibling's phone and an actually x-rated photo from a partner I knew popped up, I'd be like, 'Oh god, I'm so sorry, I think this is for you,' and try to forget I ever saw it."
"I live in rural New England, a pretty progressive area, and folks are breastfeeding toddlers while selling you garlic scapes at the farmer's market. No one bats an eyelash, nor should they. It's as normal as feeding a baby from a bottle."
"Your sister should take a vacation out here and get a quick education." - SockSock81219
A few joked that they had no idea why the OP's sister was divorced.
"I'm shocked Ariel is divorced. Surprised, really. Can't even figure out why that would happen." - polybiastrogender
"I'd marry her just so I could divorce her." - I_might_be_weasel
"Ariel is terrible. OP needs to put her in her place and never let her use his phone again. She snooped and saw things she didn't like. Too bad."
"OP definitely needs to shut down his sister though. It kind of sounds like no one ever does, which has turned her into the kind of person no one wants to be around." - crystallz2000
Feeling slightly conflicted after his jab at his sister, especially after his wife suggested he might want to make nice, the OP wondered if he had taken it too far when spoke out to his sister.
But the subReddit had other ideas. Not only had she used the phone for purposes other than the agreed-upon phone call, but she was also sexualizing the act of breastfeeding and wearing what was likely a light summer dress.
If anyone needed to apologize, it was likely her for snooping and judging, not to mention doubling down.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp