When two people fall in love and consider getting married, the dream is that their families will love and happily accept them, and that their families will blend together beautifully.
But it doesn't always work out that way, admitted the saddened users of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Wonderful_Phase7375 knew that his sister did not like his wife and also did not approve of their marriage, stating that the relationship was bad for him.
But when his sister went so far as to reach out to his wife and demand that she divorce him, so that he could move on and find someone who was better for him, the Original Poster (OP) knew that it was time to set a boundary he should have set a long time ago.
He asked the sub:
"AITAH for removing my sister from my life after she asked my wife to divorce me?"
The OP's sister and wife had a toxic relationship.
"My older sister doesn't like my wife, and she never did. She was against our marriage, and she doesn't respect her or my marriage."
"She either ignores my wife completely or taunts her."
"My wife tolerated her this whole time, but later today, my wife told me that my sister called her and she asked her to divorce me because she's not suitable for me."
The OP confronted his sister, which led to an argument.
"I went to my sister and asked her why would she tell my wife to divorce me."
"I said that I understand she doesn't like my wife. I even tried to validate her and said it was okay and that she doesn't have to, but I pointed out that asking her to divorce me is going too far."
"She said that my wife is controlling me and I have married her because of my insecurities, and we aren't a good match."
"When I told her that our families approve of our marriage, then why was she so against it?"
"She said she was against it, because she cares about me, and she believed that my marriage and my wife were not good for me."
"I said that I love my wife, and I trust her, and I don't think that I can find a better woman for me, and if she doesn't agree or respect my wife and our marriage, then I am removing her out of my life."
"I also clarified that I'm speaking for both of us because my wife doesn't want to tolerate her anymore."
"My sister got emotional and said that she was just trying to help me, and I should listen to her, and that she was not my enemy, and I'm her brother, so she won't ruin me."
The OP felt conflicted about what was happening with his sister.
"I feel bad for asking her for permanent removal from my life, and I do love my sister, but my wife comes first to me, so I'm prioritising my future, so am I wrong?"
"Removal of her from our life is a must, I think, if now she's telling my wife to divorce me. Otherwise, maybe in future, what else would she do or say?"
"My sister doesn't like my wife? Okay, she doesn't want to talk to her and ignore her? Okay, but why would she ask my wife to divorce me? If else she should have talked to me and told me to divorce my wife, and I'm never doing that."
"What is she going to get by controlling me? This is what I don't understand."
"And yes, I'm keeping my wife, keeping her in my life is my priority if I didn't want her in my life, and she didn't want me in her life, then we wouldn't marry each other, and we are suitable for each other, we think we couldn't have found a better partner."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some called the OP out for letting his sister treat his wife this way for so long.
"YTA for tolerating your sister treating your wife so badly all this time."
"Go no contact already." - ypranch
"YTA for even countenancing your sister being this mean to your wife for this long. You should have excommunicated her as soon as she made her feelings to your wife obvious." - Interesting_Bake3824
"He is a sh*tty husband to the point his sister thought it was completely okay telling his wife to divorce him." - PeppermintEvilButler
"OP, where have you been, and what have you been doing as she has taunted and mistreated your wife this whole time? She only felt some manner of okay to take it this far because you haven't checked her before."
"Your wife ignoring it doesn't mean that she hasn't been hurt by everything your sister has done this whole time."
"Cutting off your sister, NTA, allowing your wife's mistreatment is a different story." - socal__77
"100% NTA. Family often think they get a free pass; I have less tolerance for family bulls**t than non-family as family generally thinks they are more entitled to have an opinion or have a say in decisions."
"At the end of the day, family is important, but the second someone wants to try and cause unnecessary drama or create some kind of bullshit or stress, they're gone. I don't have time or energy for it, nor do I want it in my life."
"A week before our wedding, my mother tried sitting down with me one-on-one and in a weird way, talk me out of marriage. She tried to do the same with my then fiancé (now wife) literally the next day."
"For some reason, she thought that I would be loyal enough to her, my mother, not to say anything to my then fiancé, and she thought my then fiancé would be loyal enough to not say anything to me. Ultimate backfire."
"When my wife and I got married, we made a vow to each other to always put one another above all others. I take that seriously. We are now 10+ years together and in a very happy, healthy marriage, two fantastic little boys, and I have no family drama because I cut out the bulls**t." - Miserable-Fan-5532
"NTA. But really ask yourself, do you prioritize your wife when you say, 'she either ignores my wife completely or taunts her and my wife tolerated her this whole time.'"
"Why haven't you shut this down a lot earlier? "She doesn't have to" like your wife but she needs to can it. She taunts your wife and you sit there and permit it?"
"YTA 100% for letting that happen. It's what has given your sister the balls to determine she has the standing to have that conversation with your wife at all." - SunMoonTruth
Others theorized that the sister wanted to overpower the OP, and they encouraged him to go no contact with her.
"NTA. Classic projection. SHE wants to control you, and is projecting that onto your wife."
"Tell sissy you will be divorcing her and keeping your wife." - johncate73
"Based on what I know about controlling people, it's a sense of power, your sister's wanting to feel the sense of power over you, and is trying to maintain control by breaking your wife and you up so she can maintain control over you."
"This is a very common tactic used by controlling people, basically it's a narcissistic trait, it's weird, it's unhealthy, and I think you should put some distance between yourself and your sister." - Yo-KaiWatchFan2102
"How much older than you is your sister? I'm getting strong 'I know what is good for you better than you do,' which is more common if there is a bigger age gap. Still not justified. At the very least I would give her a long time out." - myssi24
"I kind of feel this way about a sibling's spouse and do think they'd be better of finding other partners, but I'd never say it, because I'm not insane."
"Either your sister is right and you'd be happier with someone else. Or she's wrong and wants to control you. Either way, she shouldn't be treating your wife so poorly." - runwith
"If you ever do let your sister back into your life, NEVER let her disrespect your wife again. That means you don't let your sister taunt your wife or be rude in any way, including ignoring her as if she isn't there."
"None of her previous behavior was 'okay' as you put it in another comment, all of it was too far, not just her telling your wife to divorce you."
"Your wife is your primary family, and is part of your extended family that includes your sister, whether your sister likes it or not. Your sister needs to acknowledge and accept this and be cordial at all times. Frankly, if the rest of your family accepts your wife as you say, they should tell your sister to knock it off, too."
'You never should have let it get this bad that your sister felt comfortable telling your wife to leave you, you should have stopped her long ago instead of allowing your wife to tolerate such poor treatment."
"If you keep your sister in your life at all, you need to shut down any mistreatment, and tell your wife to tell you about anything your sister does behind your back, and enforce consequences on your sister, including going no contact with her." - whatthewhat3214
While the subReddit could applaud the OP for creating space between his wife and his sister, they couldn't help but side-eye the OP for waiting so long to do something about his sister's treatment of her. Just because his wife put up with the behavior didn't mean that she was okay with it.
It was essential that the OP finally took that step to protect his wife, but perhaps it should have come sooner.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp