People often have different ideas of what "appropriate dress" means. For one person on Reddit, the issue sparked drama when they refused to take their fiancé to a work dinner because of her inappropriate outfit.
They weren't sure about how they'd handled it, so they went to the AITA (Am I The A**hole) subReddit for perspective.
The Original Poster (OP), who goes by DiplomaticOrange on the site, asked:
"AITA for going to a work dinner alone because my fiancée didn't want to change?"
They explained:
"It wasn't a work dinner per se but a celebratory dinner with my colleagues my boss organised to congratulate/thank us for the past year. It was no black tie event but it was at a nicer restaurant and with my boss so there was a certain decorum expected."
"Partners were allowed so I thought to bring my fiancée and she agreed. Lately my fiancée has been dressing less conservatively, for lack of a better word, which hasn't really phased me much because whatever but I kind of expected her to dress a bit more appropriately given the setting and company."
"When I picked her up though, she was dressed in these fishnet stockings, short shorts and a blazer with no shirt/bra underneath. I reminded her that my boss will be there and where we were going and she said it didn't matter."
"Told her that it wasn't appropriate and that we still had time if she could find something else (if it matters, I was just wearing jeans and a sweater). Long story short she said she wasn't interested in changing and if it bothered me so much I should go alone."
"So I went alone. As expected, everyone else was also dressed casually but not too casual. Dinner lasted a couple hours and then I returned home. Fiancée was mad that I left without her and said that I was being controlling/wasted her time since she got all dressed up and put on makeup."
"I understand her disappointment but it wasn't appropriate for where we were going and she didn't want to change. Aita?"
Redditors were then asked to judge who was in the wrong in this situation based on the following categories:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
And though there was some debate, most of them were on OP's side and understood their hesitance about the outfit.
"NTA. It was a professional event, and that was…not a professional outfit. It's fine to dress how you like and express yourself, but that doesn't mean it's OK to completely ignore what's appropriate for the type of event you're attending, especially when it's work related." --TemporaryBadger
"I found it especially funny that she was angry because she especially DRESSED UP for the dinner like Wtf?! She didn't even wear a shirt! How can she call that dress up?"
"NTA It was a work dinner with the boss and not a date night in a club." --Sheeps_n_Birds
"NTA, I went to a "company dinner" where one man's wife came in similarly dressed. It was a disaster all around. Everyone else was appropriately dressed for the weather and the event. She proceeded to get drunk and act like a royal botch. He was so embarrassed he left early with her protesting she wanted to stay longer at the "party"." --Fusion_Power
"Agreed - I was somewhat prepared to say Y T A until the description of the outfit. Even if casual, that outfit was wildly inappropriate for an evening out with OP's work colleagues and boss. OP is definitely NTA." --Specific-Succotash-8
"It almost strikes me as she did it on purpose to test OP and OP's reaction. I can't possibly believe she would think it appropriate for a work\business function and am pretty sure she doesn't wear anything like that to her own job (unless she works on a street corner)."
"NTA OP." --genxeratl
"My thing is, if it were her boss then I would be okay with it because SHE knows her boss, and SHE will face any consequences. He is saying 'this is not appropriate for MY workplace, for MY boss'"
"If it were a matter of 'grandma didn't like that when fiance bent down she saw an inch of cleavage so now I ask her to wear a nun outfit for family events' I'd absolutely say Yes, TA, but this is a matter of professionalism so OP is 100% NTA" --gimmethegudes
"NTA for exactly this reason. There is a time and a place for that outfit, and I'm sure she looked awesome, but this wasn't the venue for something like that. Office casual is something everyone has in their closet and can still look amazing with some nice makeup and accessories. It isn't hard to understand, either, even if you don't work in an office: Conservative, comfortable, clean, and classic." --Chocolate_Egg18
"eh- im generally on team 'you dont get to tell a woman what to wear ever'"
"BUT i do think asking her to put on a shirt to meet the boss in a corporate/work dinner setting is within reason, and does not make you an a**hole."
"I'dve met her in the middle and been like 'ok listen fine with all this but imma need a shirt, ok?'"
"NTA" --ThrowawayforMILBs
"As a woman, why not? Honestly I would like it if someone told me I'm wearing something that's too revealing, too tight, not flattering, or too casual."
"What's with this whole 'you don't get to tell a woman what to wear ever' BS? Like we're all delicate flowers who can't take constructive criticism? I hate what we're turning women and girls into."
"Also, nothing about her outfit would have been OK at a work function so your 'meet in the middle' premise doesn't work. Fishnets with shorts …cringe. Even with a turtleneck…not appropriate" --QueenRhaenys
"That's a fine rule to live by - if the woman is also the one bearing any potential consequences*. She doesn't get to make other people suffer career repercussions because of how she dresses."
"*Being embarrassed of what your friends or neighbors might think is not a consequence, I'm talking actual quantifiable ramifications" --ElectricFleshlight
"I get what you are saying, but to some extent this depends on if they have a little sense, and the flexibility to change what they wear with changing circumstances. You can do and wear what you want but you don't always get your way. rough pubs in my area have signs 'no shoes, no shirts, no entry'."
"Intended for men but goes for everyone. She wouldn't have got into the sort of pub where your shoes stick to the carpet, if you stand still too long." --madbeardycat
"I think the idea can best be summed up as this:"
"'I don't like how you dress, you need to change.' = bad"
"'The place we are going to has a dress code, so you need to change to fit that dress code if you want to go.' = okay"
"It's the 'if you want to go' part that makes it okay. Fiance had the choices of 'dress for the event and go' and 'don't go', and she chose 'don't go'. That is totally fine! She can dress how she wants and not go to the event."
"That's why OP isn't an asshole. It was situational and she wasn't actually forced to change. She just got to experience a natural consequence of not following a dress code expectation." --partofbreakfast
"I agree with that sentiment in almost all situations, but there are definitely exceptions. The rules have changed over time and differ from place to place and group to group, but guests and hosts still have certain obligations to each other when attending an event."
"Sh*t like OP's fiancee dressing like Columbia to go to dinner with the boss, or men who insist on wearing shorts to everything (including traditional weddings or black tie events) just boggle my mind. If you go to an event that has pretty clearly understood expectations for appropriate attire and you intentionally flout those expectations, it is a breach of your obligations to the host and other guests and a metaphorical slap in the face."
"It's nonverbally saying that you care more about your outfit than being a part of the event or making other attendees comfortable. There are times when it makes sense to do that, but there should be a good reason for it and it shouldn't be done at someone else's expense unless that person is an intended target (e.g. wearing sweats to work to protest a pointlessly formal dress code)."
"I feel like this is something that everyone knows but some people just bend over backwards to convince themselves (and everyone else) that it doesn't exist and it's so dumb. ALL societies have complicated rules of unspoken etiquette about all manner of things, INCLUDING dress code."
"Ignoring that is a tacit statement that you don't want to be there; that you'd rather be doing something else. Insisting these things don't exist just to get out of having to wear a shirt or a pair of long pants for a couple of hours every once in a while is plain selfish and inconsiderate*"
"*I'm aware that some people suck at reading social cues or picking up on etiquette or have sensory issues that make certain clothing particularly unbearable but that's not really what I'm getting at here."
"Not knowing you're breaking an unspoken rule or needing to wear something a bit unusual to accommodate a sensory issue or disability is understandable. Refusing to take your partners concerns seriously or make any compromises at all because you insist that social expectations aren't real is quite another." --punkinholler
Hopefully OP and his fiance can find an understanding.
Woman With Cerebral Palsy Livid After Husband's Doctor Questions Why He Married Her
In the search for comprehensive medical care, people may have tough conversations about their lifestyle, work, relationships, and other potential stressors.
But a doctor can only make so many decisions on behalf of their patient, cautioned the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor _lucky96 was seeing the same doctor as her husband, so their doctor was aware of both of their medical histories and needs, including her having cerebral palsy.
But when the doctor brought up her condition during her husband's latest appointment and questioned their marriage, the Original Poster (OP) was appalled and wanted to find a new medical care provider.
She asked the sub:
The OP had cerebral palsy and a full life.
"I have cerebral palsy. It mainly affects my walking, but I can walk independently and live a pretty normal life."
"My husband and I have been together for three years and have a blended family with five kids altogether. Three of my kids aren’t biologically his."
The OP and her husband just started seeing a new doctor.
"We’ve both recently started seeing the same general practitioner (GP)." I’ve seen him about three times now and generally thought he was helpful."
"I had noticed he seemed very interested in my disability and would often ask questions about it and whether I had support, but I assumed he was just being thorough."
In the OP's eyes, the doctor crossed a line.
"Today, my husband had an appointment with the same doctor for stomach issues."
"During the appointment, mental health apparently came up as part of the discussion, but the appointment itself wasn’t for mental health."
"I wasn’t in the room because I was outside with our daughter. According to my husband, the doctor asked him, 'Why did you marry your wife?'"
"My husband said because he loves me, and then the doctor apparently said something along the lines of, 'With her disability and five kids, that’s a lot to take on. You realise when she’s older, you’ll have a lot to do as she ages.'"
"My husband thinks I’m overreacting because they had been discussing different stressors in his life, and believes the doctor was just talking about responsibilities and support systems."
"I understand that possibility, but I can’t get past how hurtful it feels to hear my disability described as something my husband 'took on' or as a future burden he’ll have to manage."
"The doctor also said, 'Not many men would do what you do, you’re a good man.'"
The OP was upset about the conversation her husband shared.
"What bothers me most is that the conversation wasn’t even about me, and I wasn’t there to respond or provide any context."
"I feel like the comments reduced me to my disability rather than seeing me as a wife, parent, and person."
"Am I wrong for being upset by this and considering raising it with the clinic, or does this sound inappropriate?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that the doctor's comments were highly inappropriate.
"That’s highly inappropriate. You are NOR." - Direction_Physical
"NOR. You are not overreacting at all. That was completely inappropriate and dehumanizing."
"You’re his patient’s wife, not his patient, while your husband is in that room. Bringing up your disability and five kids during your husband’s stomach appointment had nothing to do with his care."
"Saying you’re 'a lot to take on' and 'not many men would do what you do' frames your marriage like a charity case, and you like a burden instead of a partner."
"That’s ableist, unprofessional, and a violation of basic boundaries."
"It makes sense that you feel reduced to just your disability after hearing that."
"Raising it with the clinic is absolutely reasonable. You deserve a doctor who treats you as a whole person, not a problem for your husband to manage." - DaringDuvet
"This makes me so stabby. I’m non-verbal and have right-sided weakness."
"We were married 29 years before it happened, and the number of people who think my husband needs a medal and a parade for sticking around..."
"Don’t get me wrong. My husband is one of life’s truly good dudes. But seriously?" - sorenelf
"This is infuriating. He's a good man because he didn't ditch?"
"When my mum was diagnosed with cancer that wasn’t going to do the polite thing and get fixed, the amount of applause for my dad not leaving her was astounding."
"He was horrified at first, but that wore off pretty quickly, and he just started calling it out. That made quite a few people squirm in their own discomfort."
"It says a lot about someone who thinks a natural choice is to bail." - BasicLingonberry9914
"NOR in the slightest."
"Even if we assume good intent and the doctor wanted to make sure there are safety nets and supports in place for both of you, that has NOTHING to do with the question of why your husband married you."
"I would absolutely file a complaint, and if you both can, find another general practitioner." - ooooohcakepudding
"NOR. I have severe Aphakia, and if my specialist looked at my husband to remind him he's going to be growing old with someone who is likely going to go blind, I think I would die."
"My husband had been through h**l and back with me and my eyes long before we got married, so he knows what he signed up for. And it isn't the doc's place to sort out. Super duper unprofessional." - Global-Nature2420
"So at first, I thought you were overreacting. I am a mental health provider, and a doctor discussing stressors and very real-life situations happens all the time."
"The minute you added the part that 'not many men,' things changed. He took what could have been a normal conversation and changed it to his personal feelings, which is absolutely disgusting."
"NOR at all. I would file a complaint." - Trash_Human92
Others pointed out that it was an important conversation to have, though the doctor could have been more delicate.
"While tough, this isn't an inappropriate conversation to have if the stress is causing his health to deteriorate."
"The truth is not inappropriate. I think the way he worded it was a bit much, but not what he said."
"It appears to me the OP is not dealing with how her disability is not just about her, but everyone, etc. For example, my cancer was also stressing my loved ones out." - Total-Ad886f
"I was having panic attacks in the middle of the night due to my husband's health and lack of care. So when he finally started seeing someone in my same doctor's office (but not the same doctor), it was SO much better."
"My doc and the nurse have been really, really concerned about my mental health, so they were happy to hear that he's taking his health seriously and improving, because that means that I am sleeping more and my mental health is better, and that means my ability to manage my own chronic pain and health issues has been better."
"I was not coping at all and barely able to function." - popchex
"The doctor may have mentioned OP in the conversation with her husband if he was trying to ascertain if he had stressors that may contribute to his stomach issues. Sure, your spouse, children, work, and parents can be considered stressors at times in anyone’s life."
"For me, where he crossed the line was when he decided just how OP’s condition will impact the future."
"Firstly, OP is obviously capable of caring for everyone, including herself and children, with minimal, if any, assistance. As OP ages, more assistance may be required, but this may also be the case for her husband, too, as he ages. The responsibility of the children will not be a factor, as they are adults."
"So the doctor’s predictions are presumptive and unnecessary. Health is not guaranteed for anyone. We all will face various challenges to our physical abilities as we age."
"What I would take up with the clinic is why he felt it necessary to ask the husband why he married OP. To additionally state because of that, ‘He was a good man’ is grossly inappropriate and unprofessional."
"There is potential for an ongoing issue to arise if OP were to continue seeing this doctor. His bias toward her husband may very well influence any care she may need in the future. NOR." - Cool-Blackberry-785
"It doesn’t make sense because if your husband was talking about how stressed he was, why would the doctor bring up more reasons he should be stressed? Or if he didn’t seem stressed enough, is the doctor then going to be like, 'Consider how stressed you’ll be in X amount of years'?"
"It sort of sounds like he’s saying something like, 'Why would a man do that?'"
"The only exception I’d give is if your husband had some sort of health thing he’s completely ignoring, and the doctor was trying to give him a wake-up moment. Because then, they sort of have to be blunt to make you realize you need to prioritize your health. But simply being stressed isn’t enough to start saying, 'Why did you marry your wife?'"
"Whenever it’s women in your husband’s position, they just get told they’re an awesome rockstar. No one questions WHY they do it."
"NOR. You should find a doctor who makes you feel supported, and you feel is better overall."
"I wouldn’t make your husband change yet. It is hard to find doctors you like. Maybe when you establish with a better doctor, he’ll switch, too." - imwearingredsocks
Since the OP's husband went to the doctor to discuss stomach issues and likely how to remedy them, it's reasonable that the subject of possible stressors would come up, so the husband could avoid those stressors and improve his symptoms.
However, some Redditors felt that also including details about his marriage and fatherhood in the conversation was crossing a line, and while being a care provider to a spouse could be stressful, many felt it was being addressed from an ableist perspective instead.