While antivaxxers seem to be everywhere thanks to the internet, railing against vaccines, armed only with dubious anecdotal evidence unsupported by science or medicine, dates all the way back to 1796.
That was the year Edward Jenner introduced the smallpox vaccine. Public pushback and organized antivaxxer leagues sprung up almost immediately afterward.
Since then, skepticism has waxed and waned, largely dependent on what public health crisis is currently occurring and how deadly or debilitating it is. In the digital age, sound science and medical research is at everyone's fingertips, but so is misinformation fueled by grifters getting rich off other people's ignorance and gullibility.
A vaccine proponent turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subReddit for feedback after a conflict with her antivaxxer cousin.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending romantic relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However, there are no required voting acronyms—only suggested ones—and no official final judgment declared.
Anonymous_poster43 asked:
"AITAH for asking my cousin for her medical degree?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I am 29, female. My cousin (30, female) has three kids (10, 9 and 4). She has not vaccinated any of them."
"Now let me preface this by saying this: I don’t care what you do with your child. If you vaccinate, don’t vaccinate, etc... it’s your child and your choice."
"However, my cousin will go to great lengths to tell ANYONE who disagrees with her stance on vaccines to 'educate themselves' or 'do your research'. This absolutely drives me up the wall."
"Because her research is based on Google searches. Not peer reviewed journals, not pediatricians advice. Just simple 'should I vaccinate my child?' plugged into Google.
"Well, one day we had a discussion about me having children one day. She already tried to say 'well don’t vaccinate your kids. It’s bad for their health'. I said I would follow whatever my OB or my future children’s pediatrician advised."
"Then she said 'well, I highly recommend you educate yourself and do your research before you do so'."
"Well, I straight up asked her, 'well, show me your degree. Not your Google searches. Not your Facebook mom groups that agree with everything you already believe. I want to see your degree where you’re qualified to tell me what I should and shouldn’t do with my baby. You can do whatever you want with your kids. But don’t you dare tell me how I should raise my future children'.”
"She got mad and left. Our families are divided over the issue. Some say that I was right. Some say 'you should have just heard her out'."
"I feel bad for upsetting her. But I’m not going to let someone say I’m 'uneducated' when all they do is research pure bullsh*t they find on Google and in Facebook mom groups and just run with it."
"So, AITA?"
The OP later added:
"I did not expect this to blow up the way it did. Wow. Thank you for all the comments. I wanted to clarify some things.
"Yes, I absolutely care about vaccines. I plan to vaccinate my future children. Where I was saying 'I don’t care' was because other parents are unfortunately gonna do what they are gonna do instead of listening to a qualified doctor's advice."
"I feel like everyone should vaccinate their kids and listen to doctors. My point was if someone is gung-ho on not vaccinating their kids, then I’m not going to push it."
"But I agree!!!! They are the main reasons why measles and other diseases are coming back!"
"Also, I can’t help but laugh at some people who are saying this post is AI. I swear, someone could fart and y’all would claim it is AI!"
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- INFO - more information needed
Redditors decided the OP was not wrong to call out their cousin's bullsh*t (NTA).
"I am old, but not that old, but I remember older folks thinking Salk was a god of science for ending Polio and measles and mumps were eradicated in the US for a long period BECAUSE of most parents listening to their doctors and getting their kids vaccinated."
"Now, preventable childhood diseases have snuck back into the population, not only puttingthe antivaxxers' unvaccinated kids at risk, but the kids that COULD NOT be vaccinated are at risk because as a country, we've fallen below the level of herd immunity that used to protect the small minority of kids with cancer or autoimmune disorders."
"The paper that started all the hysteria has been proven false and the author was banned from practicing medicine and their article was retracted from publication - something that rarely happens in peer reviewed journals."
"NTA for holding onto common sense and reason against hysteria and pseudoscience. More people should, maybe the weak-minded fools will rethink their stance if enough folks push back." ~ 2dogslife
"My grandparents were strict Seventh Day Adventists who basically lived in a commune in the middle of the rural Alabama woods. They rarely went to doctors and preferred all-natural herbal remedies to medicine if possible. They had a medicinal herb garden in with the vegetable one."
"When the polio vaccine came out, my grandfather still lined his kids up to get it. He lost siblings to polio. Stopping polio from taking his kids was far more important than his scriptures and 'echinacea will fix it' lifestyle. He disagreed with doctors on many things, but never vaccines."
"People today don't remember polio, truly remember it. We eradicated the bad things and people have forgotten what it was to live amongst polio and measles outbreaks. But if things keep going as they are, we will all get to experience it as the previous generations did."
"And this anti-vaccination trend will stop because the antivaxxer's kids will be dead. That is until we forget again at least." ~ Bluevisser
"I've seen several articles interviewing people who lost children to measles in the last few years, where the parents say if they could go back they still wouldn't vaccinate their kid."
"Death is somehow better than vaccination to some of these people, they are so lost in their delusions." ~ Svihelen
"NTA. I can’t stand when people say 'you’re uneducated' or say 'do your research' when they don’t even have a degree or know what peer-reviewed research is."
"You’re right. She can do whatever she wants with HER kids. But she doesn’t have a right to bash someone because they chose different."
"I would have asked for that degree too, OP." ~ socialwerkchik_
"NTA. And it does matter whether or not parents vaccinate their children. Failure to vaccinate places both her children and immunocompromised people at risk." ~ dvatty
"Was gonna say, it’s not good for the kids (who are waaay more likely to suffer/die from something that has been preventable for decades and was all but eradicated), and it’s especially not good for organ recipients, cancer patients, etc..."
"Based on a 'study' that has since been torn to shreds by the scientific/medical community and exposed as a fraud? Anecdotal 'well, Susie’s kids got vaccinated and now she has autism' type evidence? *Gut feelings*?"
"That’s why you’re potentially letting your children/immunocompromised strangers/friends/neighbors suffer and/or die‽‽"
"I agree, do your research, get second opinions, whatever makes you comfortable, but get the info from DOCTORS WHO SPECIALIZE IN IT, not YouTube conspiracy rabbit holes, Facebook, or TikTok." ~ ChickenBossChiefsFan
"I have only ever heard the 'uneducated' and 'do your research' arguments from people who do not have any peer review research to back up their claims."
"NTA- as you stated, she can raise her kids as she likes, you can raise your kids as you like." ~ nonchalantenigma
"Someone invited a life coach to our little group to give a presentation. When it came to question time I asked them what their degrees were and how they had become a life coach. Turns out this chick hadn't even finished one semester of community college—she just declared herself a life coach and found people dumb enough to give her money. I got up and walked out." ~ PurpleSailor
"NTA. Let her be upset. These people should be told off and shamed for putting their children at unnecessary risk because they’ve fallen for fear tactics and misinformed propaganda." ~ fIumpf
"I generally don’t judge what other people do with their lives, unless it becomes a public health issue."
"Measles cases are rising where I live and it makes my husband and I very pissy about it. There should be zero tolerance for anti-vaxxers." ~ Tsukaretamama
The OP provided a short update:
"My cousin is still not talking to me, but she keeps sending me Facebook posts and TikTok’s about 'how bad vaccines are' created by people who have the same medical and scientific credentials she has—absolutely none—and spout wild claims with zero proof to support any of them."
"So still no actual research. I blocked her."
"Thank you again to everyone who commented!"
OP's solution is probably best.
Her cousin appears very dedicated to remaining woefully ignorant while telling others to educate themselves.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp