Some people are really into appearances, that's just a fact.
It also isn't surprising if a bride-turned-bridezilla becomes one of those people in the days leading up to her wedding.
But what if the bride isn't the problem at all, but instead her future mother-in-law, cringed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor AITAmomisthrowaway was fed up with his mother's and sister's frequent concerns about his future wife not looking wedding-ready and washed out because of her lack of makeup.
But when they continued to push the issue, the Original Poster (OP) began to entertain the idea of disinviting them from the special day entirely.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for telling my mom and my sister I'll uninvite them from my wedding if they don't leave my fiancée alone about her appearance?"
The OP was looking forward to his small, simple wedding.
"I'm getting married next month. We are keeping it small, just immediate family and a few close friends in the park on a Friday afternoon. 16 guests total plus the officiant and the photographer."
The OP's future wife also liked to keep her appearance simple because of her work life.
"For her job, my fiancée works in a lab that sterilizes medical instruments and surgical equipment. There are strict requirements to work there in terms of appearance and the dress code."
"They aren't allowed to wear any makeup at all, any kind of nail polish or fake nails, or any kind of perfume/cologne/body spray or other scented products. If you do show up with any of that, you are sent home."
"My fiancée tells me since they are covered from head to toe with all their skin and hair covered, no one bothers with trying to look good at work. They have to wear scrubs, a protective gown, booties over their shoes, a hairnet, a face mask, glasses, a face shield, and double gloves."
"I have been dating her for almost 2 years and living with her for a year, and I have never seen her wear makeup."
"I honestly don't care if she doesn't because she is comfortable with how she looks. She hasn't bought or worn it in 15 years because of her job."
But the OP's family was not convinced about the bride's choices.
"My mom and my sister are unhappy she isn't going to wear makeup for the wedding. They say she will look 'washed out' and 'not good' in the photos."
"We did hire a professional photographer for the wedding. It was our biggest expense but we want to have nice photos."
"He has photographed hundreds of weddings and he took our engagement photos. In our engagement photos, my girlfriend didn't wear makeup and she looks fine."
"It was taken in the same park at the same time of day as our wedding will be. He is aware we are keeping our appearances simple and my fiancée is not wearing makeup, and he said he can make it work like he did with our engagement photos."
The OP was surprised when his family continued to push the issue.
"At first, I thought my mom and my sister just wanted her to look her best in the photos even if I didn't like the looking-not-good dig."
"I showed them the engagement photos but they weren't placated. They didn't let it go."
"My complexion, hair, and eye color are the same as my fiancée, and I said I wasn't wearing makeup either."
"This is where I got angry because both my sister and my mom said it doesn't matter what I do, because men look fine without makeup whereas women don't, so it only applies to my fiancée and not me."
The OP decided to put his foot down.
"My fiancée said it was up to me how I handle it. I told them if they mention the subject again or say anything to my fiancée again I will univite them to the wedding."
"I don't even know why they care so much. But after I said I would uninvite them, they were not happy and now both of them are royally mad at me."
"They're saying I shouldn't mistreat or talk to family this way when they were just trying to help. Also as a man, they said I don't understand why this issue is important."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some thought the mother and sister sounded incredibly sexist.
"Marriage aside, they were already massive a**holes for that f**king 'Men look fine by default but women need makeup' misogynistic bulls**t comment."
"It baffles me that we're in the year of our lord 2022 and people still say s**t like that." - TaleOfDash
"Yeah, I never got this argument, I had similar aggro for my wedding because I planned to do my own minimal make-up, which apparently was not good enough, and my mother and others were like 'But the photograaaaaaaphs, you'll looked washed ouuuuut.'"
"When I asked why I would look like crap but my husband wouldn't, nobody had a response. There were similar meltdowns over the fact I was doing my own hair."
"I looked d**n awesome in those pics if I do say so myself. People have crazy ideas about what the bride should and shouldn't have done looks-wise for weddings but nobody seems to have similar expectations for the groom." - Academic-Panic
"Somehow 'he doesn't know why it's so important,' yet they happily dismiss that the woman they demand changes herself is perfectly happy with how she looks."
"Even if there was ground for arguing OP is misinformed, his fiancée has the last word, and she doesn't care for makeup."
"It's sad that OP's family feels so horrible about themselves that they need the makeup but he is marrying a woman who is content in her own skin. NTA." - BraidedSilver
"I also recommend that they add to that answer, 'If I shouldn't mistreat or talk to family this way, YOU shouldn't mistreat or talk to family this way either, Mom and Sis. Telling my wife she'll look bad without makeup is ruder than me telling you to stop discussing her looks. This better be the end of it.'" - ItsAboutResilience
Others were concerned about how this would impact the marriage.
"NTA. Good for you for standing up for your fiancée. It's her face. Nothing to do with your mum or sister. Be warned. They will always be like this with her."
"But don't attribute good intentions to this. They are not trying to help. They are trying to impose their ideals on your fiancée. It's none of their business." - ninasimonerules
"NTA. It was none of their business, to begin with, but I would have entertained them mentioning ONCE that she may want to wear makeup. After that, it's just harassment."
"I'm a woman. I don't wear makeup. I didn't wear it to my wedding. My pictures turned out h**la cute."
"Congrats on the wedding, and good job sticking up for your fiancée!" - OTK421
"Amazing fiancé right here!!!! NTA."
"I'm sorry your mom and sister are giving you a hard time. I think the best way to handle this would be to shut them down quickly whenever they bring it up, by saying things like you did above, then refuse to answer any follow-up questions."
"Sometimes people wear makeup because they're uncomfortable in their own skin, and although I don't think you should accuse your family of this, I think you could say you love how confident your fiancé is." - dev-246
"NTA. I think it's a perfectly reasonable response. You don't get to come to the wedding if you can't stop criticizing the bride's appearance, because nobody needs that kind of negativity on their wedding day."
"Don't make the mistake of believing your mother and sister were 'only trying to help'. That's a classic bully's defense, right up there with 'lighten up, it's only a joke'."
"People who are genuinely trying to help know when to let it go (after the first 'no', that would be), they don't get angry if their offer for help isn't accepted, and they manage to offer that help without being insulting."
"Your mother and sister are not 'helping' when they are telling your fiancée that the way she looks, the way she looked when you fell in love with her, and the way she will look as you spend your life with her, isn't good enough. They were blatantly attacking your wife-to-be, and you were absolutely right not to put up with that." - Signal-Television510
While the OP thought he may have been a little too tough with his family when he threatened to disinvite his mother and sister if they didn't lighten up about the makeup issue, the subReddit insisted he had done the right thing.
It would be terrible for his family to not be there on his wedding day, true, but it would be even worse to set a precedent that his family can mistreat his wife, question her choices about her body, and insult her appearance.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp