They say, "Cleanliness is next to Godliness."
Who are "they?"
Who knows.
People who are obsessed with bleach, perhaps.
It's understandable to want your home clean.
But are there limits to achieving cleanliness perfection?
Case in point...
Redditor throwawayy029482 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for forcing my stepdaughter to pay me back after she ruined my house?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (43 F[emale]) and my husband (47 M[ale]) have been married for 4 years now."
"We both have children from our previous marriages, (12 M) and (10 M) and 'O' (18 F)."
"My husband and I dated for three years prior to getting married but moved in altogether two years ago."
"O lives with us full time, and it had a bit of a rocky start with mine and O's relationship, but we managed to push through it."
'I told O from day one that I wasn't her mom, but if there was anything she wants to talk about or need, she can come to me."
"After a few months, we became quite close, and she talked to me about anything she was too embarrassed to talk about with her dad."
"Recently, O has been trying to make friends at College since she just started in the spring."
"On-campus residence is very expensive for the college, and it's close to our house, so O decided to stay at home."
"That's not a problem. The problem is that O keeps bringing her friends over to hang out but leaving it a mess."
"Normally, it's not a major deal."
"I have O[bsessive] C[ompulsive] D[disorder], so sometimes there are issues depending on the situation though because she picks up after herself."
"But I recently hired a housekeeper to clean the house once a week since I've been working overtime more often and I and my husband just don't have time."
"It is expensive but I cannot stand it when it becomes too messy for me, so I think it's worth it."
"This time, she brought her friends over after the house was cleaned, and I guess they decided not to take their shoes off and walked all around the house, leaving footprints."
"They also made pizza from scratch and left the crumbles on the counters, among other things."
"They pretty much made the entire house filthy before I could even come home."
"Once again, the cleaning service is quite expensive because I like a higher level of cleaning quality, so I was pissed."
"My husband is trying to make me let it go because O has always struggled to make friends, but I can't let it go because of how much it cost."
"I requested the exact amount I paid for the cleaning service to her Venmo, and she acted all confused on why she had to pay for it."
"I explained that she and her friends ruined my house that was just cleaned, but she insisted it wasn't her."
"I have a ring camera, and I have video proof of her and her friends going into the house, and they were the only ones home that day before me."
"I gave her two choices, pay for the damages, or I stop paying for her phone."
"She's complaining, saying it wasn't her and she doesn't have the money to pay the phone bill."
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP WAS the A**hole.
"Footprints in your house and pizza crumbs do not make a house 'filthy.'"
"You had plenty of options other than charging your stepdaughter - you could've cleaned it, your husband could've, you could have asked her to clean it, etc."
"YTA. Telling your stepdaughter she ruined your house is a surefire way to ruin your relationship with her." ~ twelvedayslate
"Yeah, this is outrageously unreasonable."
"I have O[bsessive]-C[ompulsive] D[disorder]. I'm genuinely baffled that OP felt it was anything other than manipulative to refer to footprints and CRUMBS as DAMAGE."
"I thought this was going to be about some house party where furniture was destroyed, and items were stolen."
"OP should consider therapy. This is some Monk-level insanity." ~ Alarmed_Jellyfish555
"I'm with you- I was waiting for 'they made pizza but then went outside drinking, and the kitchen caught on fire and will cost $30k to fix.'"
"CRUMBS?! As in… wipeable off-the-counter CRUMBS?!"
"I'm with you- she needs therapy and asap."
"This is an unliveable situation for everyone." ~ vancitymala
"I'm also confused about the footprints."
"How dirty are their feet that they would leave footprints walking barefoot?"
"I could see if they tracked muddy shoes all over the house, but... footprints?"
"Are the floors glass or something?"
"I walk barefoot on hard floors in my home and have never left a footprint??"
"Honestly, OP, you overreacted."
"YTA You could have just asked her to clean the crumbs off the counter next time."
"This is mildly annoying but not 'ruined my house' annoying." ~ Bloodrayna
"If you have OCD, then you know sometimes it legitimately makes you crazy over mess and germs, and you can't help it."
"OP absolutely needs therapy and possibly meds if she's not doing that already."
"I also have OCD, and the hyper-focus on things when they are not right is very, very real."
"However, it's absolutely ridiculous for her to expect payment."
"Or that footprints and crumbs won't be in a house." ~ Slug_Queen_Tsunade
"Same! I have OCD, and posts like that make my blood boil."
"OP needs to go to therapy and stop justifying her actions and blaming her shi**y behavior on OCD."
"She needs to stop controlling everything and everyone around her and look into herself."
"And get help."
"OCD is hell, but there is help out there."
"It's hard work but it's possible. YTA." ~ Lower_Pattern6479
"There does need to be a little self-reflection here on OP's part and a little consideration for how parental OCD can affect the kids."
"I have a mom with OCD around cleaning, and I also have a sister."
"We've responded to her cleaning obsession in 2 unhealthy ways."
"My sister straight up inherited the OCD cleaning obsession."
"Gets intense anxiety in a messy house, which, since she has three kids and a lazy husband, is pretty much always."
"Me? I feel like my desire to live in a clean house is a little more normal."
"I don't need my house to look literally uninhabited by humans like my sis and mom, but I have a few areas where I'm a little obsessive."
"Food hygiene is one of them, examining cutlery for stains and food remnants, etc."
'Before I will use it."
"I also have spent most of my life at home making an effort to clean and then having my mother come along and 'redo it properly.'"
"From this, I picked up a nice 'nothing I do is ever good enough' complex about certain things."
"Get therapy, OP. It's your irrational need to have professional cleaning services in every time someone drops 'crumbs' in your house."
"Why should your stepdaughter pay for that?" ~ dreamham
"I came here to read about a massive house party and ended up disappointed to read about a boring afternoon of footprints and pizza."
"I used to have house parties every time my parents went out of town when I was in high school, and I'm talking about my house would be trashed and people sleeping on couches, my parents and sister's beds, kitchen table, etc."
"And I, A teenager, would clean the house myself before they got home, and they would never know."
"So you can't tell me that your house was that trashed from your stepdaughter and a couple of her friends having an afternoon of pizza with their shoes on unless they were throwing pizza sauce and cheese at each other and drawing on your walls with sauce and using pepperonis as smiley face eyeballs."
"Simply asking her to clean up after herself or not to have friends over anymore would have been a legitimate, easy solution."
"But instead, you had to be a child and try to make a point and ruin your relationship with your stepdaughter in the process."
"Good job, OP."
"Now you're back to square one on a relationship that took years to build. Great work!" ~ t_lee210
"I also have OCD, and there's a part of me that wonders if this post is fake because it's so over the top."
"If it's not, OP, you had the option of asking her to clean because crumbs and footprints are, y'know, clean-able?"
"But you went straight for the nuclear option."
"You're going to destroy your relationship with her."
"If your OCD is genuinely this bad, you need therapy ASAP. YTA." ~ Wonkynose
"There wasn't even a mention of a rule about not inviting anyone and being extra careful in the house on X day until OP gets home and can enjoy an extremely clean house for at least a little while."
"So it's not only an unreasonable expectation (and I say this knowing it would and does bother me if I can't even have 5 minutes at home after it's fully clean to enjoy it), but it came out of nowhere."
"Reasonable amends?"
"O cleans it, the husband cleans it (he gets to cover for her if he chooses to, especially if it's to help her when she struggles to make friends), husband pays for a touch-up with the cleaning service or the total."
"Crumbs and footprints shouldn't take too much if the house has been deep cleaned."
"And I won't even mention the fact that this isn't what I expected to read after 'a teenager ruined my house.' YTA." ~ tinaciv
OP gave an update...
"EDIT TO CLEAR CONFUSION: The cleaners came before O, fully cleaned the house, then left, and an hour later, O came in with her friends."
Well, OP, sounds like Reddit has some issues with your issues.
OCD can be difficult to battle.
But there are better ways to deal that might not harm your relationship with "O."
Maybe a little group therapy would be a good start.
Good luck.
Expectant Dad Of Two Livid After Brother Questions Why He'd Bring Another Kid Into Bleak World
It's no secret that a lot of people are struggling right now, from the cost of living to job insecurity to food insecurity to poor housing. But that doesn't mean we have to stop living.
For many people, that means still starting and growing their families, while planning how to navigate the world we're currently in, pointed out the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor DesignerOwn1141 and his wife knew that the world around them wasn't at its best right now, but they were eager to grow their family and were excited to bring a third child into the world.
When they announced their pregnancy, his brother's first reaction was to send him articles about how the world was doomed and shame him for bringing a child into it; the Original Poster (OP) wondered if he needed to block his own brother.
He asked the sub:
The OP and his wife were excited to welcome a third child into their family.
"I am 33 and male. My wife is 29."
"We have two sons, a six-year-old boy and a three-year-old boy. Both are happy, healthy, and well taken care of."
"We love being parents to them, and I work very hard to provide a good life for my family."
"My wife is four months pregnant with our third."
The OP's brother's life was very different from his.
"My younger brother has been something of a failure-to-launch case."
"Despite having every advantage, he never got good grades in school, was addicted to 'League of Legends' so severely that he barely scraped by, and spends his days streaming games to nearly no viewers on Twitch."
"I've watched his stream a few times, but he just rages constantly."
"My wife is too classy to ever say so, but I can tell he makes her uncomfortable."
"He's my brother, so I've long wanted to believe he's just bad at communicating with people, but to be frank, he's sort of just an a**hole. He's unapologetic whenever he says something hurtful and more likely to just double down and say, 'No cap.'"
"But if anyone so much as challenges his views, he throws a huge fit."
The OP tried to share his happy news with his brother, but his brother immediately squandered it.
"Recently, we announced she was pregnant with our third child. It's a joyous occasion for us because we wanted three children, and our other two sons are excited about having another brother or sister."
"When I texted my brother the news, he immediately said he couldn't imagine having children with the world the way it was."
"I asked what he meant, and he started sending me these articles about global warming, the plague in Russia, wars around the world, and so on."
"He seems convinced that the world is going to end in ten years tops, and that I'm only bringing up another child to die in the 'water wars.'"
"I was honestly disgusted with him. To tell someone that their unborn child is going to die, that their other children are going to die, is absolutely abhorrent behavior."
"But since he's always been a sensitive s**thead, I just said, 'Whatever, man,' and stopped reading his texts."
"He wouldn't stop. He kept sending me every doomer article. He said that when the clouds evaporate, the earth is going to get 15 degrees hotter. He said that AI is going to hack every government database. He said that China is going to invade Taiwan, and then it'll be war with the US and allies against Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran."
The OP had had enough of his brother's negative feedback.
"Finally, I just told him I was blocking him and thought little of the decision."
"He went and cried to our parents (again, he's the most sensitive s**tbag in the world), and they told me what I did was over the top."
"I know that if I unblock him, he's just going to doomspam me again."
"Am I wrong for just straight-up saying I never want him in my life again?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that they understood why he felt the need to distance himself from his brother.
"NOR. He sounds insufferable."
"He sounds like one of those people who doesn't like his life and so wants everyone else to be miserable too, or makes excuses for why he didn't do more with his life by blaming his problems on some external crisis." - savingrain
"NOR. He's allowed to protect his peace, especially if his brother keeps ignoring boundaries and turning every conversation into another end-of-the-world prediction, and having kids is hardly a reason to apologize for trying to build a good life despite everything going on." - Upper-Cloud9097
"NOR. But your brother is on his way to a full mental breakdown. Send him back cute dog and cat videos. Cute horse videos. Ozzy animal voiceovers."
"Eventually his phone will start thinking he's like me and his feed will calm down." - Present_Original_797
"I mean, my beliefs and thoughts about the future are along the same lines as him, and that’s why I’m an anti-natalist, but there’s something called tact. And personal choice/autonomy."
"If someone chooses to have kids, that’s their choice, and I’d keep my opinions to myself and be supportive, especially if they’re a family member. Spreading doomer content is extremely insensitive and rude. NOR." - EngineerGold4242
"NOR: I wonder whether your brother is displaying sibling jealousy towards you and your family; he recognizes his own shortcomings and can see where he is in life compared to you, and that is his major issue."
"Days filled with unfulfilling computer games and doomspamming others, he has a lot of maturing to do. Block him until or unless he decides to join the adult world and be the uncle he is supposed to be." - iron_redditman
"NOR. I have all those fears and as such actively avoid news about them. I skipped whole paragraphs here for that reason too, lol."
"I’d definitely block my sibling or anybody else who did that to me. I already know all these things; I don’t need constant reminders. All I can do is work on improving my little corner of the world and trudge forward."
"Anyway, protect your peace." - hahagato
"You are not obligated to bond with someone just because you share blood. It’s your peace and your family that you need to protect now. If you decide to go zero contact, it’s perfectly okay!"
"Especially because you and your wife are in charge of two, almost three, little guys, and your mental peace affect directly to them."
"PS. Historically, the world has always been on the edge, but nothing stops us to be what we are, humans trying to get over all the s**t! So don’t let those bad things put you down. We can build a better world by raising kind, lovely people, and it seems you and your wife are doing it. Good luck!" - Camigatoespinace92
Others advised the OP to involve his parents in case they could help his brother.
"Unblock him and then send everything he texts you to both mom and dad. No comments, just forward it."
"They'll think you're sending it, and when they complain, you can tell them that you thought they'd be interested in your brother's articles as well."
"NOR." - No_Address687
"NOR. Your parents don't know the half of it. Forward everything and let them read it for themselves." - Available_Agent3305
"NOR. I’d keep him blocked; your parents are wrong. If you want to be petty, start sending your parents article after article of stuff you know they won’t like. They will get the hint soon enough." - OldieButNotMoldy
"I would also go low contact with the OP's parents. OP is clearly NOT the favorite son. Any boundaries he put up with his brother will be considered wrong. NOR." - Interesting_Novel997
"NOR, but also my first reaction is that your brother isn't a 'sensitive s**tbag,' he is struggling with anxiety/depression and maybe undiagnosed neurodivergence and is drowning in his own ruminations. None of that makes this an appropriate response to a pregnancy announcement; it's clearly not. But he sounds like someone who is clearly struggling here."
"If it were me, I'd be sending your parents anything he previously sent you. If they share your concern after reading a few articles, maybe they'll take steps to help him." - 2kidsnomoney---
"NOR. I'm sorry to say this, OP, but your brother has not been socialized normally. He is a chronically online loser who thinks he can do and say whatever he wants and does not understand there are no consequences because there are often no consequences when he does it in a league match or online."
"It frankly sounds like your concern for him and his future is budding into resentment and contempt, and I feel like, as most brothers would, those are not the feelings you want to hold towards him."
"I have a brother like this. He was diagnosed as an adult with Asperger’s and now just a spectrum autism diagnosis, but he’s a real a**."
"You may have to unblock him to communicate fairly. It may be worth doing this in person because it’s easier for the chronically online to 'craft' their retort rather than be a part of a conversation."
"Before you can do that, though, you need to sit down with your parents. You need to explain and be able to articulate that:"
"1. His reaction to the wonderful news of you having another child crossed the line and was inappropriate."
"2. There need to be reasonable consequences or boundaries because you are no longer willing to put up with that."
"3. It is his call at this point whether or not he wants to be in your life and your children’s lives."
"You have to have their buy-in; otherwise they are just going to continue to coddle and enable this behavior."
"Then you need to sit down with him and your parents, intervention style. You need to present the same argument you did to your parents, and in all honestly, I would question him in return: what was he hoping would have been the outcome of that conversation?"
"Did he want you to say he’s so right, so smart? Did he want you to go to your wife and tell her to abort? Does he feel like he is in a place in his life where he can be your family planner and manager? When he crosses a line, what does he feel should happen?"
"Only when he is directly confronted, and you have the right supports in place, can he be presented with how his behavior affected you and what that could possibly mean for his relationship with you and your growing family." - allison_mossie
The subreddit understood feeling burdened by so much negative information during what should be a happy time of planning and anticipating a new addition to the family, but the OP needed time to think about what he wanted his larger family dynamic to look like.
That might mean removing his brother, so that the OP could protect his own, and by extension, his wife's and children's, mental health, but it might mean minimizing contact with other people, too, if they weren't willing to respect the OP's boundaries he had for his family's life.