They say, "Cleanliness is next to Godliness."
Who are "they?"
Who knows.
People who are obsessed with bleach, perhaps.
It's understandable to want your home clean.
But are there limits to achieving cleanliness perfection?
Case in point...
Redditor throwawayy029482 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for forcing my stepdaughter to pay me back after she ruined my house?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (43 F[emale]) and my husband (47 M[ale]) have been married for 4 years now."
"We both have children from our previous marriages, (12 M) and (10 M) and 'O' (18 F)."
"My husband and I dated for three years prior to getting married but moved in altogether two years ago."
"O lives with us full time, and it had a bit of a rocky start with mine and O's relationship, but we managed to push through it."
'I told O from day one that I wasn't her mom, but if there was anything she wants to talk about or need, she can come to me."
"After a few months, we became quite close, and she talked to me about anything she was too embarrassed to talk about with her dad."
"Recently, O has been trying to make friends at College since she just started in the spring."
"On-campus residence is very expensive for the college, and it's close to our house, so O decided to stay at home."
"That's not a problem. The problem is that O keeps bringing her friends over to hang out but leaving it a mess."
"Normally, it's not a major deal."
"I have O[bsessive] C[ompulsive] D[disorder], so sometimes there are issues depending on the situation though because she picks up after herself."
"But I recently hired a housekeeper to clean the house once a week since I've been working overtime more often and I and my husband just don't have time."
"It is expensive but I cannot stand it when it becomes too messy for me, so I think it's worth it."
"This time, she brought her friends over after the house was cleaned, and I guess they decided not to take their shoes off and walked all around the house, leaving footprints."
"They also made pizza from scratch and left the crumbles on the counters, among other things."
"They pretty much made the entire house filthy before I could even come home."
"Once again, the cleaning service is quite expensive because I like a higher level of cleaning quality, so I was pissed."
"My husband is trying to make me let it go because O has always struggled to make friends, but I can't let it go because of how much it cost."
"I requested the exact amount I paid for the cleaning service to her Venmo, and she acted all confused on why she had to pay for it."
"I explained that she and her friends ruined my house that was just cleaned, but she insisted it wasn't her."
"I have a ring camera, and I have video proof of her and her friends going into the house, and they were the only ones home that day before me."
"I gave her two choices, pay for the damages, or I stop paying for her phone."
"She's complaining, saying it wasn't her and she doesn't have the money to pay the phone bill."
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP WAS the A**hole.
"Footprints in your house and pizza crumbs do not make a house 'filthy.'"
"You had plenty of options other than charging your stepdaughter - you could've cleaned it, your husband could've, you could have asked her to clean it, etc."
"YTA. Telling your stepdaughter she ruined your house is a surefire way to ruin your relationship with her." ~ twelvedayslate
"Yeah, this is outrageously unreasonable."
"I have O[bsessive]-C[ompulsive] D[disorder]. I'm genuinely baffled that OP felt it was anything other than manipulative to refer to footprints and CRUMBS as DAMAGE."
"I thought this was going to be about some house party where furniture was destroyed, and items were stolen."
"OP should consider therapy. This is some Monk-level insanity." ~ Alarmed_Jellyfish555
"I'm with you- I was waiting for 'they made pizza but then went outside drinking, and the kitchen caught on fire and will cost $30k to fix.'"
"CRUMBS?! As in… wipeable off-the-counter CRUMBS?!"
"I'm with you- she needs therapy and asap."
"This is an unliveable situation for everyone." ~ vancitymala
"I'm also confused about the footprints."
"How dirty are their feet that they would leave footprints walking barefoot?"
"I could see if they tracked muddy shoes all over the house, but... footprints?"
"Are the floors glass or something?"
"I walk barefoot on hard floors in my home and have never left a footprint??"
"Honestly, OP, you overreacted."
"YTA You could have just asked her to clean the crumbs off the counter next time."
"This is mildly annoying but not 'ruined my house' annoying." ~ Bloodrayna
"If you have OCD, then you know sometimes it legitimately makes you crazy over mess and germs, and you can't help it."
"OP absolutely needs therapy and possibly meds if she's not doing that already."
"I also have OCD, and the hyper-focus on things when they are not right is very, very real."
"However, it's absolutely ridiculous for her to expect payment."
"Or that footprints and crumbs won't be in a house." ~ Slug_Queen_Tsunade
"Same! I have OCD, and posts like that make my blood boil."
"OP needs to go to therapy and stop justifying her actions and blaming her shi**y behavior on OCD."
"She needs to stop controlling everything and everyone around her and look into herself."
"And get help."
"OCD is hell, but there is help out there."
"It's hard work but it's possible. YTA." ~ Lower_Pattern6479
"There does need to be a little self-reflection here on OP's part and a little consideration for how parental OCD can affect the kids."
"I have a mom with OCD around cleaning, and I also have a sister."
"We've responded to her cleaning obsession in 2 unhealthy ways."
"My sister straight up inherited the OCD cleaning obsession."
"Gets intense anxiety in a messy house, which, since she has three kids and a lazy husband, is pretty much always."
"Me? I feel like my desire to live in a clean house is a little more normal."
"I don't need my house to look literally uninhabited by humans like my sis and mom, but I have a few areas where I'm a little obsessive."
"Food hygiene is one of them, examining cutlery for stains and food remnants, etc."
'Before I will use it."
"I also have spent most of my life at home making an effort to clean and then having my mother come along and 'redo it properly.'"
"From this, I picked up a nice 'nothing I do is ever good enough' complex about certain things."
"Get therapy, OP. It's your irrational need to have professional cleaning services in every time someone drops 'crumbs' in your house."
"Why should your stepdaughter pay for that?" ~ dreamham
"I came here to read about a massive house party and ended up disappointed to read about a boring afternoon of footprints and pizza."
"I used to have house parties every time my parents went out of town when I was in high school, and I'm talking about my house would be trashed and people sleeping on couches, my parents and sister's beds, kitchen table, etc."
"And I, A teenager, would clean the house myself before they got home, and they would never know."
"So you can't tell me that your house was that trashed from your stepdaughter and a couple of her friends having an afternoon of pizza with their shoes on unless they were throwing pizza sauce and cheese at each other and drawing on your walls with sauce and using pepperonis as smiley face eyeballs."
"Simply asking her to clean up after herself or not to have friends over anymore would have been a legitimate, easy solution."
"But instead, you had to be a child and try to make a point and ruin your relationship with your stepdaughter in the process."
"Good job, OP."
"Now you're back to square one on a relationship that took years to build. Great work!" ~ t_lee210
"I also have OCD, and there's a part of me that wonders if this post is fake because it's so over the top."
"If it's not, OP, you had the option of asking her to clean because crumbs and footprints are, y'know, clean-able?"
"But you went straight for the nuclear option."
"You're going to destroy your relationship with her."
"If your OCD is genuinely this bad, you need therapy ASAP. YTA." ~ Wonkynose
"There wasn't even a mention of a rule about not inviting anyone and being extra careful in the house on X day until OP gets home and can enjoy an extremely clean house for at least a little while."
"So it's not only an unreasonable expectation (and I say this knowing it would and does bother me if I can't even have 5 minutes at home after it's fully clean to enjoy it), but it came out of nowhere."
"Reasonable amends?"
"O cleans it, the husband cleans it (he gets to cover for her if he chooses to, especially if it's to help her when she struggles to make friends), husband pays for a touch-up with the cleaning service or the total."
"Crumbs and footprints shouldn't take too much if the house has been deep cleaned."
"And I won't even mention the fact that this isn't what I expected to read after 'a teenager ruined my house.' YTA." ~ tinaciv
OP gave an update...
"EDIT TO CLEAR CONFUSION: The cleaners came before O, fully cleaned the house, then left, and an hour later, O came in with her friends."
Well, OP, sounds like Reddit has some issues with your issues.
OCD can be difficult to battle.
But there are better ways to deal that might not harm your relationship with "O."
Maybe a little group therapy would be a good start.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp