Generally, when we meet our partner's family for the first time, we want to be on our best behavior.
But sometimes, something will come up that we simply cannot let go, first impressions be darned, cringed the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
For Redditor HeWhoSoughtTheFire, that was the final bill for an introductory family dinner before the wedding day.
Everything at the dinner went well, except for the fact that four extra family members showed up unannounced, and when that increased the dinner bill by $200, the Original Poster (OP) didn't speak up, but he did the next "best" thing... He made them pay for it.
He asked the sub:
"AITAH for asking my fiancée's relatives to pay for themselves after they brought uninvited guests to our pre-wedding dinner?"
The OP looked forward to an introductory family dinner with his in-laws.
"I (30 Male) am engaged to my fiancée (29 Female), and we're getting married this fall."
"Last weekend, we hosted a small pre-wedding dinner. Just a chill evening for our immediate families to meet, talk, and celebrate a bit before the real wedding chaos begins."
"We reserved a table at a mid-range restaurant we both like (good food, not crazy expensive). We confirmed 14 guests: our parents, siblings, plus two friends from the wedding party."
"Everything was set. I even called ahead to double-check the headcount."
But then, extra people appeared at the event.
"We show up and her family brings four extra people: her cousin and his wife (who were 'visiting anyway'), her sister's boyfriend, and (weirdly?) his teenage daughter."
"They said it was last-minute and 'hope that's okay.'"
"The staff were gracious, though somewhat surprised. They had to push another table over and reshuffle the whole seating plan."
"We ended up waiting around 15 minutes, apologizing to the servers. Not a disaster, but definitely awkward. Dinner itself was fine. Everyone had a good time. We had mains, some shared appetizers, and a few bottles of wine, nothing too wild."
When it came time to pay the bill, the OP had a plan.
"But when the check came, it was a bit over $850. We'd expected around $650 based on the confirmed guests and menu."
"So, I quietly asked the server to split the extras' meals from the rest. I paid for the 14 we planned for."
"The extra ~$200 from the uninvited guests? I felt that wasn't really on us."
"Everyone paid without fuss, but her cousin seemed confused."
The OP's partner lashed out at him later for splitting the bill.
"Her sister didn't say anything at the time, but later, my fiancée told me she felt embarrassed and that I made her family feel unwelcome. She said I 'could have just let it go for one night' and brought it up later."
"I said I didn't want to pretend everything was fine while people ignored basic plans we made together. She said it felt like I turned a family dinner into a 'power move' over money."
"Now things are somewhat weird between us... So, was I wrong?"
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that it was bad manners to show up without an invitation.
"NTAH. It's uncouth to show up to a dinner uninvited and expect the host to pay for said dinner at a restaurant. The first thing I would have said if I brought an uninvited guest right after asking if it's okay would have been to say, don't worry, I'll cover their meal."
"It's not a free-for-all, and how do they know how much you had budgeted for the meal? There's a head count for a reason and then a confirmation of the headcount for a reason." - Snoo-77094
"Not only were they not invited guests, they had zero reason to be there. Those invited were parents, siblings, and members of the wedding party. They could have dined elsewhere and met back up at the parents' house."
"Gauche and mannerless." - BefuddledPolydactyls
"'She said it felt like I turned a family dinner into a 'power move' over money.' No, the mooching family tried to turn a pre-wedding dinner into a "power move" and got butthurt with your reverse uno. As did your doormat fiancée."
"And this is a big, fat head's up that they will likely bring along more uninvited people to your wedding and reception - and of course your fiancée will tell you to suck it up." - PrideofCapetown
"Even if you were a millionaire with money to burn, they shouldn't have brought extra people and expected you to pay for it. Or even be okay with it." - LibraryMouse4321
"NTA, but you might want to check with your fiancée if she okayed the extra people. She should be embarrassed by her family for being entitled and not you. This is giving me an aura of 'sure, you can bring them, he won't care,' and being embarrassed that you did indeed care." - Tired_Mama3018
Others agreed and said the guests and the people who invited them could pay.
"NTA. You planned and agreed on a certain number of guests. These people brought four uninvited people, who were not your guests. Why would you pay for people who weren't your guests and you didn't invite?"
"They tried to get a free meal out of you by hoping you didn't have a spine and wouldn't say anything. They tried to bully you into feeding four people you didn't invite. Nothing was stopping your fiancé from paying for the freeloaders. You set the tone that this crap won't be tolerated." - Vandreeson
"OP, I think you might need to gently explore this with your fiancé."
"Her family caused a 30% cost overrun on your pre-wedding dinner."
"If it's not a big deal to them to change plans (without notice to you) and cause 30% higher cost for a hosted dinner, is it gonna not be a big deal to add guests to the wedding reception or change the menu or... without notice to you?"
"I think you need to explore where HER boundaries are and what behavior from her family she expects you to 'let it go for one night'?" - Constant_Hoest_3212
"NTA. I think you handled it well. In what world is it socially acceptable to show up to a hosted dinner with four uninvited guests? The fact they didn't offer to pay for them is an additional level of rudeness." - privacy6310
"Them joining is odd, but not that big a deal in itself. But what I recommend you dig into is why your fiancé allowed it. Most likely, she knew in advance there were extras coming. Most likely also some dumb test."
"The alternative is that she's spineless and won't stand up for you in marriage and will let her family run over her. Regardless of which it is, I recommend you get to the bottom of it before marriage."
"The fact that they brought the sister's boyfriend's TEEN DAUGHTER? Just no way it was an accidental four people. Pretty sure the teen daughter of a random boyfriend would have preferred to stay home instead of going to a literal stranger's pre-wedding celebration."
"So the whole thing smells deliberate, OP, and I'm betting dollars to donuts your fiancé is somehow "in" on it." - anotherdropin
"Why didn't his fiancée pay up if she didn't want to be embarrassed? No, you do not pay for uninvited guests. Fiancée is the a**hole." - Shadow4summer
"This dinner isn't a dealbreaker, OP, but I hope it prompts a very serious discussion with her about money and expectations. Include other options if you find yourself in this situation again. Tell her you aren't paying for uninvited guests, so that's not an option on the table."
"If she doesn't like what you did (uninvited guests pay for themselves), then ask her if she would prefer that you have the check split as you did, with you graciously covering the agreed-upon guests and your fiancée paying the additional?"
"Or should you have just, as a couple (since it is HER family, she must take ownership of handling them), declined to seat them with the group right from the outset? Or... what other option does she propose? And again, you just paying for it is off the table."
"Let her know that these kinds of boundary-pushes by her family are a test, and you're going to begin as you mean to go on; you're not having it, period. Her family doesn't get to walk all over you and/or treat you like an ATM. Options should all revolve around HER handling HER family, and you handling yours."
"Even how she's phrasing her response is frankly offensive, saying you turned it into a power move. YOU didn't turn dinner into a power move, her family did when they added four extra people to your party of 14 with no discussion, and expected you to pay for it. She needs to take her blinders off in regards to her family. They pulled the power move, and were p**sy when you shut it down." - katybean12
But a few were concerned about how the OP handled this situation.
"YTA. You should have asked your fiancée how she wanted to handle it. That's her family. The way you handled it embarrassed your fiancé and alienated her family all over $200. You left your partner out of the decision."
"It was a total d**k move on the parents' part to invite people to a dinner they didn't plan and aren't paying for. Switching sides for a moment, I would have called ahead to ask if it would be alright if I bought a few more people, I'd be happy to call the restaurant to adjust the reservation and IF I PAID for them."
"But the person this hurt most was your fiancée. You owe her an apology." - totally-jag
"It was absolutely rude and insulting for your future in-laws to invite people without your consent, and then expect you to pay..... but I have to be honest and say I think OP over-corrected here and absolutely made a power move by passive-aggressively having the poor waiter do your dirty work by splitting the bill."
"All of this could have been avoided with a few honest moments. You absolutely owe your fiancée an apology. You are a team, start making decisions like one." - BenButtonInReverse
"Was this the first time meeting the family? If so, it's an odd choice to die on this hill rather than just pay and have your fiancée talk to her parents later about not adding extra guests in the future."
"If it was a pattern of mooching, then yes, say something, but the first time... It's not even weird that they assumed your Sil's partner would be included in the first place. YTA." - starchy2ber
"I don't think OP is an AH for not wanting to pay, but YTA for how you handled it... or rather ESH..."
"Yes, the extra guests shouldn't have shown up... but OP unilaterally deciding without consulting fiancee, and just having the server send them their bill at the end of the night is just cringeworthy... There's no need to blow all of this up over $200."
"OP could have said at the beginning that, 'We're happy to have you join us, but we're on a tight budget for the wedding and for tonight, so I hope the extra guests don't mind paying for themselves.'"
"Still awkward, but then at least NTA..." - Driftwood256
"YTA... While I understand why you did what you did and, for the most part, I agree with it, this was not just your decision to make alone. This was your fiancée's family. Did you say anything at all to her before the check came? Did you tell her your feelings and why you felt you should not have to pay for the extra guests, and how you should go about handling this?"
"Were these joint funds? Or did you pay from your own account? If they were joint, you should have definitely talked to fiancée before making a solo decision. If only your funds, you should have told fiancee you would only be paying for invited guests, and she could either pay for the extra guests or talk to her relatives about doing so." - Worth-Season3645
After receiving feedback, the OP shared a brief update.
"Thanks for all the comments, it was very cool to read different opinions (unfortunately, I can't possibly answer everyone!). So, we had a talk. It wasn't super dramatic or anything, just... kind of weird."
"But her relatives texted me later saying, 'no worries,' and that they didn't mean to cause issues, which was quite decent of them."
"My fiancée is still a little distant, though. She said she needs time to think about "how we handle stuff as a couple", so I guess we'll see."
While everyone could understand the trouble extra guests could cause and could see how inconsiderate it was to add to the bill, the subreddit was divided over how the OP handled the situation.
On the one hand, it was best to not set a precedent that the family could do whatever they want without consequence, but maybe for one evening, while everyone was getting acquainted, the OP could have handled this or at least his involved his partner for guidance.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp